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The world should also be very concerned about the current leader in China, who is currently re-writing the democratic traditions of China to remain in power ind

by qqtt 4y ago

The world should also be very concerned about the current leader in China, who is currently re-writing the democratic traditions of China to remain in power indefinitely, which echoes the moves certain other leaders have made. This is, time and time again, a precursor to using military adventurism to justify and consolidate their grip on power. If anything, people aren't worried enough. Being overly sensitive about a egregious spy balloon is not the problem that should be called out right now.

bradleyjg 4y ago
Uh, what democratic traditions of China?
- mlindner 4y ago
  You can have bits and pieces of democracy without actually fully having it, I think is the intent of the above post.
- Vecr 4y ago
  They have some, possibly with Deng Xiaoping and that sort of era. Obviously Taiwan is democratic, but I'm not sure how much of that goes back to when the ROC controlled more of mainland China.
  - dmoy 4y ago
    > I'm not sure how much of that goes back to when the ROC controlled more of mainland China. Basically not at all. There was initially gonna be democracy, but then it was just warlords/generals controlling everything. I mean ffs chiang kai shek stayed as president until 1975 when he died. Taiwan didn't really become democratic until maybe 25-ish years ago.
- qqtt 4y ago
  Such as, term limits for those in power: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/11/592694991/china-removes-presidential-term-limits-enabling-xi-jinping-to-rule-indefinitely https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/11/592694991...
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    Not sure how democratic that is. It’s not like there were elections.
    - scj 4y ago
      I agree, it's more akin to saying a King is elected by nobles... Power sharing agreements between the powerful who are not accountable to the people isn't something I'd classify as "democratic". I'd consider term limits to be anti-democratic anyway. A functioning democracy has the ability to boot politicians out, and the people within the democracy, not the law should be trusted to make that decision.
      - sandworm101 4y ago
        >> King is elected by nobles As how the US president is selected by the electoral college. The system used today is a far cry from the original scheme. Look closely and the original doesn't look very democratic, even by the standards of the time. Democracy is an idea, a collection of principals. How it is actually implemented varies considerably.
        Dalewyn 4y ago
        The Electoral College is ultimately rooted in the American people. The number of electors is a direct copy of the number of Representatives and Senators in Congress, and the electors individually are determined by each state's government who are in turn elected directly by the people in those states. The Electoral College itself exists as a way to help keep the Executive Branch separated from the Legislative Branch. Congress (aka the Legislative Branch) can step in in place of the Electoral College if the electors deadlock to a point of no recovery, but this is considered highly unusual and an undemocratic act because it violates the Separation of Powers safeguard.
        scj 4y ago
        I was thinking about various Kings during the War of the Roses when I wrote that. But a better comparison would be the "election" of a Pope. It's only among Cardinals, who tend to vote for a Cardinal to become Pope. Even though a vote is taking place, we are not talking about a democracy. As to which is closest to an ideal democracy in practice: America, Vatican City, or China, the contest in my mind is who is in second and third place, not first.
- 29athrowaway 4y ago
  Like having armed forces with an allegiance to the ruling political party in a one party system instead of the country.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  Well, at least the term limits in the top spot. It's not much, but in terms of a limit on the power of one person, it was about all they had. And now it's gone.
scoofy 4y ago
>re-writing the democratic traditions of China Ha! "Democracy" (only approved ideologies need apply).
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by qqtt 4y ago

bradleyjg 4y ago

Uh, what democratic traditions of China?

mlindner 4y ago
You can have bits and pieces of democracy without actually fully having it, I think is the intent of the above post.
Vecr 4y ago
They have some, possibly with Deng Xiaoping and that sort of era. Obviously Taiwan is democratic, but I'm not sure how much of that goes back to when the ROC controlled more of mainland China.
- dmoy 4y ago
  > I'm not sure how much of that goes back to when the ROC controlled more of mainland China. Basically not at all. There was initially gonna be democracy, but then it was just warlords/generals controlling everything. I mean ffs chiang kai shek stayed as president until 1975 when he died. Taiwan didn't really become democratic until maybe 25-ish years ago.
qqtt 4y ago
Such as, term limits for those in power: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/11/592694991/china-removes-presidential-term-limits-enabling-xi-jinping-to-rule-indefinitely https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/11/592694991...
- actionfromafar 4y ago
  Not sure how democratic that is. It’s not like there were elections.
  - scj 4y ago
    I agree, it's more akin to saying a King is elected by nobles... Power sharing agreements between the powerful who are not accountable to the people isn't something I'd classify as "democratic". I'd consider term limits to be anti-democratic anyway. A functioning democracy has the ability to boot politicians out, and the people within the democracy, not the law should be trusted to make that decision.
    - sandworm101 4y ago
      >> King is elected by nobles As how the US president is selected by the electoral college. The system used today is a far cry from the original scheme. Look closely and the original doesn't look very democratic, even by the standards of the time. Democracy is an idea, a collection of principals. How it is actually implemented varies considerably.
      - Dalewyn 4y ago
        The Electoral College is ultimately rooted in the American people. The number of electors is a direct copy of the number of Representatives and Senators in Congress, and the electors individually are determined by each state's government who are in turn elected directly by the people in those states. The Electoral College itself exists as a way to help keep the Executive Branch separated from the Legislative Branch. Congress (aka the Legislative Branch) can step in in place of the Electoral College if the electors deadlock to a point of no recovery, but this is considered highly unusual and an undemocratic act because it violates the Separation of Powers safeguard.
      - scj 4y ago
        I was thinking about various Kings during the War of the Roses when I wrote that. But a better comparison would be the "election" of a Pope. It's only among Cardinals, who tend to vote for a Cardinal to become Pope. Even though a vote is taking place, we are not talking about a democracy. As to which is closest to an ideal democracy in practice: America, Vatican City, or China, the contest in my mind is who is in second and third place, not first.
29athrowaway 4y ago
Like having armed forces with an allegiance to the ruling political party in a one party system instead of the country.
AnimalMuppet 4y ago
Well, at least the term limits in the top spot. It's not much, but in terms of a limit on the power of one person, it was about all they had. And now it's gone.

scoofy 4y ago

>re-writing the democratic traditions of China Ha! "Democracy" (only approved ideologies need apply).

dang 4y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html