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The US and Europe brought China into the WTO, gave it most favored nations trading status, transferred trillions in technology, and financed the modernization o

The US and Europe brought China into the WTO, gave it most favored nations trading status, transferred trillions in technology, and financed the modernization of the country. Pretty good friends, IMO. But it is not been reciprocated, and is now going bad. The crushing of the democracy movement in Hong Kong was a wake up call as to the intentions of China going forward.

scotty79 4y ago
> But it is not been reciprocated, How was it not reciprocated? Whole western world benefited from the cheap Chinese labor for more than a decade. I'd say we helped them economically and they helped us economically. When it comes to politics we don't see eye to eye. As for Hong-Kong they are introducing their politics there. Nothing we can do about it. And we are doing exactly nothing about it. US openly calls China an enemy in their politics. US sees China like North Korea sees US. China just wants to have their own politics without western interference. It's nasty and bad politics but it's theirs.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  Agree 100%. It’s amazing people actually believe this. They’ve built unlimited shit for us for next to nothing whine innovating ways to make it cheaper and we knowingly buy more while complaining they aren’t liberal enough. Meanwhile a far greater percentage of their citizens are happy with the country compared to anywhere in the West.
- WillPostForFood 4y ago
  I know this is a couple days ago, but they haven't reciprocated by opening their markets to our products. If they are going to take over manufacturing, and largely block US software, tech, and services, then all we get is a depleted manufacturing base and temporary cheap goods stimulus.
xuki 4y ago
You said as if it was out of the goodness of their hearts and not because they wanted to access the cheap labor market of China. The west would not have their living standard as high as today if it wasn't for China.
- mlindner 4y ago
  If it hadn't gone to China it would have gone elsewhere. China wasn't the only country with poor people at the time. The reason China got picked was because we wanted to reduce the power of the Soviet Union. The US policy during that time was all about stopping Soviet/Communist expansion and the thought was that we could bring China into the western world through monetary means. It was never about cheap labor. The US actively traded away it's own monetary assets for national security in that era. It wasn't about making money.
  - fspeech 4y ago
    China didn't get into WTO until 2001 while USSR ended a decade before that.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    The American geopolitical plan for China in the 20th century was not unlike what happened with Japan, South Korea, Germany and most of SEA post-WW2: Invest in their economies and bring them to modernity based upon free and democratic western societies, therefore creating friends and allies. And to America's credit, it mostly worked. Japan, South Korea, and Germany are now friends of the US and the west and are irreplacable economical powerhouses. SEA didn't get quite as advanced, but they at least aren't hostile to western ideals. China, on the other hand, saw the game being played and outplayed us. They took all the resources we "invested" in them to further their own ambitions, and cared not for cooperation or mutual friendships. They saw free real estate and fucking took the entire bank and stole the rest. It's long past due we, the west, reassessed our approach because China is not going to become our friend no matter how much we invest in their prosperity (and consequently due to their nature our demise).
    - scotty79 4y ago
      > Japan, South Korea, Germany You listed countries that were dominated by US military what in at least two cases led to destruction of pre-existing setup there. If anyone thought they'll be able to repeat it in China without invading it first was silly. So noone thought that. US "helped" China to get access to their cheap labor. While maintaining a fasade of being hopeful it will bring in democratic peaceful transformation. I think Germany was more honestly hopeful that trading with Russia will democratize it than US was with China. US needs an enemy to excuse its military spending. Smart people in US knew that US basically grooms China so it becomes one. After all "terrorists" can only be made into a boogymen for a very limited time given their inaptitude.

scotty79 4y ago

> But it is not been reciprocated, How was it not reciprocated? Whole western world benefited from the cheap Chinese labor for more than a decade. I'd say we helped them economically and they helped us economically. When it comes to politics we don't see eye to eye. As for Hong-Kong they are introducing their politics there. Nothing we can do about it. And we are doing exactly nothing about it. US openly calls China an enemy in their politics. US sees China like North Korea sees US. China just wants to have their own politics without western interference. It's nasty and bad politics but it's theirs.

nemo44x 4y ago
Agree 100%. It’s amazing people actually believe this. They’ve built unlimited shit for us for next to nothing whine innovating ways to make it cheaper and we knowingly buy more while complaining they aren’t liberal enough. Meanwhile a far greater percentage of their citizens are happy with the country compared to anywhere in the West.
WillPostForFood 4y ago
I know this is a couple days ago, but they haven't reciprocated by opening their markets to our products. If they are going to take over manufacturing, and largely block US software, tech, and services, then all we get is a depleted manufacturing base and temporary cheap goods stimulus.

xuki 4y ago

You said as if it was out of the goodness of their hearts and not because they wanted to access the cheap labor market of China. The west would not have their living standard as high as today if it wasn't for China.

mlindner 4y ago
If it hadn't gone to China it would have gone elsewhere. China wasn't the only country with poor people at the time. The reason China got picked was because we wanted to reduce the power of the Soviet Union. The US policy during that time was all about stopping Soviet/Communist expansion and the thought was that we could bring China into the western world through monetary means. It was never about cheap labor. The US actively traded away it's own monetary assets for national security in that era. It wasn't about making money.
- fspeech 4y ago
  China didn't get into WTO until 2001 while USSR ended a decade before that.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  The American geopolitical plan for China in the 20th century was not unlike what happened with Japan, South Korea, Germany and most of SEA post-WW2: Invest in their economies and bring them to modernity based upon free and democratic western societies, therefore creating friends and allies. And to America's credit, it mostly worked. Japan, South Korea, and Germany are now friends of the US and the west and are irreplacable economical powerhouses. SEA didn't get quite as advanced, but they at least aren't hostile to western ideals. China, on the other hand, saw the game being played and outplayed us. They took all the resources we "invested" in them to further their own ambitions, and cared not for cooperation or mutual friendships. They saw free real estate and fucking took the entire bank and stole the rest. It's long past due we, the west, reassessed our approach because China is not going to become our friend no matter how much we invest in their prosperity (and consequently due to their nature our demise).
  - scotty79 4y ago
    > Japan, South Korea, Germany You listed countries that were dominated by US military what in at least two cases led to destruction of pre-existing setup there. If anyone thought they'll be able to repeat it in China without invading it first was silly. So noone thought that. US "helped" China to get access to their cheap labor. While maintaining a fasade of being hopeful it will bring in democratic peaceful transformation. I think Germany was more honestly hopeful that trading with Russia will democratize it than US was with China. US needs an enemy to excuse its military spending. Smart people in US knew that US basically grooms China so it becomes one. After all "terrorists" can only be made into a boogymen for a very limited time given their inaptitude.