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During the COVID outbreak, my public transit provider began to neglect their fareboxes (partly because everyone was boarding in the rear and didn't bother to pa
by NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
During the COVID outbreak, my public transit provider began to neglect their fareboxes (partly because everyone was boarding in the rear and didn't bother to pay fares anyway.)
I noticed that the boxes were still broken and unmaintained. I put 2 and 2 together and realized that a mobile "upgrade" was coming soon, so I kept my eyes out. And sure enough, I got myself invited to participate in the pilot project with the upgraded app.
The deadlines slipped twice but the pilot began in mid-January. So far I have not had glitches with scanning or boarding. But let me tell you.
There are disclaimers in the FAQ. Since the mobile passes are QR-based and not NFC, they absolutely require WAN connectivity on both sides in order to activate a pass. My initial testing indicated that a loss of connectivity will not invalidate an active pass, because it's endowed with a built-in expiration countdown. But we shall see.
The FAQ also says straight out, of course, that the customer must keep the phone charged in order to use the pass. Of course it goes without saying that your phone must be functional in order to scan the thing. So that's a whole tech stack that could go awry and strand you if you don't take precautions.
Hey, this may reduce fraud and friction at the farebox. I don't know. Many people will love not having another thing to lose or the convenience of purchasing passes without going somewhere (they cost way more on board a bus.) But the Luddite in me doesn't want this. I'd much rather carry around an old reliable paper-based pass, and I will go back to that for as long as I can get away with it.
But I won't turn down a $75 gift card to play along with the pilot test.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago> Of course it goes without saying that your phone must be functional in order to scan the thing. So that's a whole tech stack that could go awry and strand you if you don't take precautions It could go awry if Google fucked up, Samsung/phone manufacturer fucks up, battery or charger fucks up, software developer fucks up, internet, etc, etc. we are replacing reliable sustems with fragile ones everywhere
- LtWorf 4y agoIn sweden Coop supermarkets were closed for a weekend because they rely on some cloud thingy from USA that had gotten a ransomware. It was their billing system, you couldn't pay cash, they had no way to record it.
- rejectfinite 4y agoYou are halfway there. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/coop-supermarket-closes-500-stores-after-kaseya-ransomware-attack/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/coop-supermar... This issue was that Visma (the MSP COOP uses for the Teller systems) had their Kaseya VSA server open to the internet and thus got affected by this. An RMM itself is fine, needed to manage systems. Do you know how many Swedish companies is on Office 365 + some RMM? A lot. lmao We also have our own shit break all the time like Swish made by our banks.
- LtWorf 4y agoOh visma! My job uses that for our salaries. I feel better now! :'( I don't have swish. I have trust issues. Most people in sweden are very prone to give trust it seems.
- shortcake27 4y agoA tangential story from Melbourne - you’re required to replace your Myki every ~7 years because of its shitty implementation, and when you do, it disables auto topup. However, when you get a new card, you also can’t immediately enable auto topup - you have to wait some time until the card is transferred. So a friend of mine had this happen and wasn’t able to touch onto the tram the following morning because they had no balance. Trams don’t have Myki machines, and there was no machine at their stop. Topping up online can take up to 24h. Paper tickets were removed to push Myki. So there was no way for them to pay the fare, but they had to get to work. Of course, ticket inspectors rocked up and fined them. It is genuinely incredible that commuters are expected to either pay a fine or be late to work because of shortcomings in the Myki system.
- vaidhy 4y agoYou cannot take a cab or something else? This seems similar to the digital piracy issue. It is inconvenient, so I decided to do something illegal. Otoh, I have seen Seattle bus drivers wave off the fare in some cases.
- ClumsyPilot 4y agoI've never been to Melbourne, but when tube is down in London, the whole city grinds to a halt, you can't get home for hours and people die because ambulance can't get through
- vlovich123 4y agoMy iPhone supports transit passes even when the battery is dead. I don’t think this is an intractable problem and indeed the designers of NFC designed for this problem: the NFC payment system provides the juice required for the SE chip to do it’s thing. QR code as transit passes aren’t great but eventually the worse designs will fade out. NFC is a way superior piece of tech and way faster too - just tap your phone and go. I was pleasantly surprised that transfers worked seamlessly this way too.
- osclarto 4y agoI live in Berlin and use the official BVG app for using the public transport here. it bugs out temporarily fairly regularly and I have to make the decision whether to buy a paper ticket to cover me (incurring extra expense) while the app isn't working or to risk it and hope the ticket inspector doesn't stop me/shows me leniency when I demonstrate the non-functioning app. extremely annoying
- realworldperson 4y ago[dead]
- totetsu 4y agoAm I miss remembering or can the nfc mobile train passes in Japan be used even with a dead battery?
- larouxn 4y agoYes, I believe this is correct as the terminal you tap/place your card/phone near transits enough power wirelessly to read the NFC (F) data or so I have read. The NFC (Felica) + Osaifu-Keitai + Suica/Passmo system is quite interesting and super reliable. Source: on a train in Tokyo right now
- netsharc 4y agoSounds like an iPhone feature: https://www.techradar.com/news/apples-iphone-xs-has-a-game-changing-nfc-feature-even-when-turned-off https://www.techradar.com/news/apples-iphone-xs-has-a-game-c... The Pasmo/Suica cards are intriguing, they are NFC, but also store the last few transactions on the card itself, there are also mobile apps for scanning these cards to see how much credit you have left and list the above-mentioned transactions.
- shortcake27 4y agoI’m a huge fan of the Pasmo/Suica cards. They’re easy to obtain and easy to accept payments, so uptake is huge (if memory serves me correctly, literally accepted everywhere?). You get most of the benefits of card payments (fast, no fiddling with change, no “do you have a smaller note”), but you also maintain anonymity which is a common argument I hear against cards in Germany and why card payments are so rare there (at least in 2017, I don’t know if the situation has changed).
- leipert 4y agoIn Germany the pandemic had quite an impact. From 2019 to 2021 cash payments dropped by ~12%, down to 38% of transactions. What’s more important, loads of shops eg bakeries have card terminals now. Source: https://www.papershift.com/blog/die-kartenzahlung-ist-in-deutschland-auf-dem-vormarsch https://www.papershift.com/blog/die-kartenzahlung-ist-in-deu...
- nischalsamji 4y agoThis sounds like valley metro
- mixmastamyk 4y agoA tap card is a nice middle ground. No idea why people are dying to drag so much complexity into a simple transaction.
- mixmastamyk 4y agoOh I remember, so they can sell your data.
- TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y agoWhy not go all the way and tie your ID, medical info, and online presence to the phone, that way they can cancel your toll pass and life when you inevitably do, say or think something the ruling party doesn't like.
- wodenokoto 4y agoThe best tech solution I’ve yet to see is simply accepting credit/debit cards. Checking in, they can charge you minimum fare and checking out they can charge you remainder. They could also charge you maximum fare and return remainder on checkout. You can even keep track of card and give discounts for multiple rides. All without registration. Works with watches and phones too.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 4y agopretty sure they do this in Vancouver bc now. i think i heard san Francisco is starting it too now. but i haven't tried either first hand
- domh 4y agoThis is how the London Underground works now. Used to require an Oyster card but has worked with contactless cards for a good few years at this point.
- kevinh456 4y agoComing from the states, tap in/tap out with my watch on the underground was so easy.
- harvey9 4y agoYes. And they still honour the daily fare cap with this payment method, and you can register your card and access an online fare statement.
- tialaramex 4y agoAnd the weekly cap. Unless you are staying for a while (e.g. working here for a month, overseas leg of a degree with-a-year-abroad) you can just tap into all of London's transport with your payment card and it's simpler without costing extra.
- iggldiggl 4y ago
- madeofpalk 4y ago> Since the mobile passes are QR-based and not NFC, they absolutely require WAN connectivity on both sides in order to activate a pass. Why they rolling out QR-based public transit ticketing in 2023 when NFC (which all phone platforms support even with a flat battery) solutions are table-stakes now?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Operyl 4y agoLowest bidder, government procurement is fun.
- NoZebra120vClip 4y agoThere is actually already a system of near-field passes that has been in place for several years and was supported by the old fare machines and bus boxes. The new QR scanners also appear to have an NFC scan icon on them. So I believe they're future-proof.
- folmar 4y agoMaybe all phone OSes (I'm too lazy to check) but far from all phones. For example a popular budget model Realme C25Y does not have NFC, or in general terms anything that is primary designed for the Chinese market, where payments are made through WeChat with QR codes, usually misses it.