3 ms·

Antarctica as a ‘natural laboratory’ for assessment of early stone tool sites

13 points by benbreen 4y ago

JoeAltmaier 4y ago
All good stuff. But I wonder, why do we think no primate had ever occupied Antarctica?
- greenyoda 4y ago
  Maybe it can be inferred from comparing the time when Antarctica broke off from the other continents to the time that primates evolved? - "From the end of the Neoproterozoic era to the Cretaceous, Antarctica was part of the supercontinent Gondwana. Modern Antarctica was formed as Gondwana gradually broke apart beginning around 183 Ma."[1] - "Primates arose 85–55 million years ago first from small terrestrial mammals, which adapted to living in the trees of tropical forests..." [2] So primates first evolved 100 million years after Antarctica became an isolated continent. For primates to have existed on Antarctica, they would have either had to evolve there independently, or be able to swim across oceans. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica#Geologic_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica#Geologic_history [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    That sounds good. But animals have been spreading since then. For instance, storm rafts of natural vegetation can be huge, and often float between land masses with animals on them. It would seem extraordinary if it never happened.
  - dahdum 4y ago
    30M years ago primates made it from Africa to South America [1]. The article also links an example of the floating vegetation that could have caused it [2]. So it seems very possible that some primates could have made it to Antarctica in the past 57-90M years of primate evolution. [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/monkeys-raft-across-atlantic-twice-180974637/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/monkeys-raft-a... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OwfGunvPXA&t=27s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OwfGunvPXA&t=27s
lettergram 4y ago
I’m always weary of assumptions being used to prove something else. > As no primates have ever occupied the continent, Antarctica offers a laboratory for generating samples that could only have been naturally fractured. I agree it seems unlikely that primates occupied the continent; then again. We already know human-like primates we’re around 1+ million years ago. All our historic geological theories and observations have been relatively recent from a scientific standpoint (few hundred years or less). We’ve had multiple major changes in views over the past 80 years. I wouldn’t be surprised if we have to update our views again.

13 points by benbreen 4y ago

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

All good stuff. But I wonder, why do we think no primate had ever occupied Antarctica?

greenyoda 4y ago
Maybe it can be inferred from comparing the time when Antarctica broke off from the other continents to the time that primates evolved? - "From the end of the Neoproterozoic era to the Cretaceous, Antarctica was part of the supercontinent Gondwana. Modern Antarctica was formed as Gondwana gradually broke apart beginning around 183 Ma."[1] - "Primates arose 85–55 million years ago first from small terrestrial mammals, which adapted to living in the trees of tropical forests..." [2] So primates first evolved 100 million years after Antarctica became an isolated continent. For primates to have existed on Antarctica, they would have either had to evolve there independently, or be able to swim across oceans. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica#Geologic_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica#Geologic_history [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  That sounds good. But animals have been spreading since then. For instance, storm rafts of natural vegetation can be huge, and often float between land masses with animals on them. It would seem extraordinary if it never happened.
- dahdum 4y ago
  30M years ago primates made it from Africa to South America [1]. The article also links an example of the floating vegetation that could have caused it [2]. So it seems very possible that some primates could have made it to Antarctica in the past 57-90M years of primate evolution. [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/monkeys-raft-across-atlantic-twice-180974637/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/monkeys-raft-a... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OwfGunvPXA&t=27s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OwfGunvPXA&t=27s

lettergram 4y ago

I’m always weary of assumptions being used to prove something else. > As no primates have ever occupied the continent, Antarctica offers a laboratory for generating samples that could only have been naturally fractured. I agree it seems unlikely that primates occupied the continent; then again. We already know human-like primates we’re around 1+ million years ago. All our historic geological theories and observations have been relatively recent from a scientific standpoint (few hundred years or less). We’ve had multiple major changes in views over the past 80 years. I wouldn’t be surprised if we have to update our views again.