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The fundamental problem is that people conflate air quality and carbon emissions. It’s two separate problems with two separate solutions. Diesel emissions caus

The fundamental problem is that people conflate air quality and carbon emissions. It’s two separate problems with two separate solutions. Diesel emissions cause cancer, but burning those emissions off takes additional energy. If you have a semi-truck without a diesel particulate filter going down I94 in rural North Dakota, getting 15-20% better fuel economy than if it had one, there’s an argument to be made that this is a net positive for the planet overall. Nobody is getting cancer from the long-haul semi trucks that spend most of their time on the interstate, and the reduced consumption is a better deal for the planet. Even with the NOX. (Citation needed). Likewise, a semi truck that exists doing short runs in urban Illinois, sitting next to a coffee shop waiting for his trailer, probably should have a DPF. The main problem I have with EVs is that we’re forgetting reduce-reuse-recycle. A 2005 Corolla is safe, it’s production emissions are already accounted for, and gets decent fuel economy even by modern standards. The correct choice for someone that cares about the planet isn’t to buy a luxury EV (and they’re all luxury cars), it’s to live a simple life and to make the least consumptive choice you can. There’s a total lack of nuance when it comes to climate change.

dangrossman 4y ago
Is anyone advocating for nation-scale forced replacement of 2005 Corollas with EVs? Most of what I see are pushes, starting in the 2030s, to limit the sale of new gas/diesel cars, not to force anyone to replace one they already have. The gas/diesel cars will continue to be used until they reach their end of life, which is typically once they hit the point that they cost more to repair than they're worth.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  Some European cities have announced plans for this. Paris and Amsterdam have announced that from 2030 onwards, only zero-emission vehicles will be allowed to drive in those cities. Depending on your definition, Paris is a nation-scale settlement. (The population is larger than many countries.) Petrol/diesel vehicles will be traded away from such cities as time goes by, and their resale value will decrease. This is already happening for the largest goods vehicles and buses in similar European cities. Mostly, older large diesel vehicles have been banned from large cities, but this gradually extends to all large diesel vehicles, then diesel vans, etc. https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/ https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/ lists many of these restrictions, but it's not the easiest site to navigate.
VBprogrammer 4y ago
The average age of a car at the time it is given up for scrap in the UK is just shy of 14 years. Cars exist in a paradox where they wear out and become uneconomical to maintain; the counter point being enthusiasts who can keep cars on the road practically forever. Doing this relies on a steady stream of parts from the same model being scrapped and sold for parts, limited exposure to the elements (slowing the rate of decay) and eventually expensive bespoke replacements.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
> Nobody is getting cancer from the long-haul semi trucks that spend most of their time on the interstate What about the drivers in those trucks and traffic? (I don’t know how to find the data.)
derefr 4y ago
> The correct choice for someone that cares about the planet isn’t to buy a luxury EV (and they’re all luxury cars), it’s to live a simple life and to make the least consumptive choice you can. Okay, but why focus on individual choice when it comes to climate policy? That's the same myopic "fix the visible symptoms" thinking that causes voters to demand offices enforce recycling policies on employees, but then does nothing to push for preventing those same companies from dumping 10000x the mass of industrial waste into the nearest river. Think like the civil engineer who must design the next pre-fab pre-densified /r/UrbanHell development to sit beside an existing factory town somewhere in rapidly-urbanizing China. What type of cars do you want that engineer to design their city to accommodate? What policies, enacted by other countries, would influence their choice? The point of global climate policy, is to influence the choices that those people make — choices which entirely swamp out (by five or more orders of magnitude) any choice you as an individual commuter will ever make.
nicbou 4y ago
I thought that keeping an old car running was better for the environment but last time I googled it, I was proven wrong, even for my very modest yearly mileage.
fooblaster 4y ago
EVs are not all luxury cars. There are multiple cars available under 40k. I purchased my Chevy bolt for 28k after minimal rebates and am quite happy with it.

dangrossman 4y ago

Is anyone advocating for nation-scale forced replacement of 2005 Corollas with EVs? Most of what I see are pushes, starting in the 2030s, to limit the sale of new gas/diesel cars, not to force anyone to replace one they already have. The gas/diesel cars will continue to be used until they reach their end of life, which is typically once they hit the point that they cost more to repair than they're worth.

Symbiote 4y ago
Some European cities have announced plans for this. Paris and Amsterdam have announced that from 2030 onwards, only zero-emission vehicles will be allowed to drive in those cities. Depending on your definition, Paris is a nation-scale settlement. (The population is larger than many countries.) Petrol/diesel vehicles will be traded away from such cities as time goes by, and their resale value will decrease. This is already happening for the largest goods vehicles and buses in similar European cities. Mostly, older large diesel vehicles have been banned from large cities, but this gradually extends to all large diesel vehicles, then diesel vans, etc. https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/ https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/ lists many of these restrictions, but it's not the easiest site to navigate.

VBprogrammer 4y ago

The average age of a car at the time it is given up for scrap in the UK is just shy of 14 years. Cars exist in a paradox where they wear out and become uneconomical to maintain; the counter point being enthusiasts who can keep cars on the road practically forever. Doing this relies on a steady stream of parts from the same model being scrapped and sold for parts, limited exposure to the elements (slowing the rate of decay) and eventually expensive bespoke replacements.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

> Nobody is getting cancer from the long-haul semi trucks that spend most of their time on the interstate What about the drivers in those trucks and traffic? (I don’t know how to find the data.)

derefr 4y ago

> The correct choice for someone that cares about the planet isn’t to buy a luxury EV (and they’re all luxury cars), it’s to live a simple life and to make the least consumptive choice you can. Okay, but why focus on individual choice when it comes to climate policy? That's the same myopic "fix the visible symptoms" thinking that causes voters to demand offices enforce recycling policies on employees, but then does nothing to push for preventing those same companies from dumping 10000x the mass of industrial waste into the nearest river. Think like the civil engineer who must design the next pre-fab pre-densified /r/UrbanHell development to sit beside an existing factory town somewhere in rapidly-urbanizing China. What type of cars do you want that engineer to design their city to accommodate? What policies, enacted by other countries, would influence their choice? The point of global climate policy, is to influence the choices that those people make — choices which entirely swamp out (by five or more orders of magnitude) any choice you as an individual commuter will ever make.

nicbou 4y ago

I thought that keeping an old car running was better for the environment but last time I googled it, I was proven wrong, even for my very modest yearly mileage.

fooblaster 4y ago

EVs are not all luxury cars. There are multiple cars available under 40k. I purchased my Chevy bolt for 28k after minimal rebates and am quite happy with it.