6 ms·

An Urbanist credo: Cities aren't loud. ICE cars are.

amalgamated_inc 4y ago
False; most modern cars aren't very loud. At city speeds, the loudest part is the tire noise. At highway speeds, the wind noise. You only really hear the engine in ICE cars under heavy acceleration or if the car is designed to be loud (e.g. a sports car).
- dangrossman 4y ago
  I've certainly heard modern ICE cars where the engine noise was minimal. At the same time, I can scarcely recall sitting in a drive-through fast food line with my window open to order and NOT being annoyed at the level of engine noise from other cars making it harder to hear and be heard at the speaker. It's definitely not tire or wind noise when we're all just idling in line.
  - amalgamated_inc 4y ago
    Yea, that's true. But I can walk around plenty of cities with cars driving within feet of me and not hear much noise besides the road noise at all. I suppose the design of the city makes a difference, e.g. are there sound-reflecting bare concrete walls everywhere (like many drive throughs).
- karmelapple 4y ago
  At the 10:15 mark in this video, different types of vehicles are measured for noise output. It would be pretty amazing if we could get around on e-bikes a lot more than we could today. Quiet, easy to ride… but in places that are not hospitable to bike riders, less safe than a car, which is likely why they won’t be adopted en masse. https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8 https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8
  - amalgamated_inc 4y ago
    Watching this video now. Impressions: - In most of the city shots, you can clearly hear that road/tire noise and honking are by far the loudest noises. EVs won't change this. - In the Delft segment, a train was the most significant source of noise so they removed it. Yes, public transit is incredibly loud, much louder than cars. - The video specifically says that road/tire noise is louder than engine noises for most cars at certain speeds. EVs won't change this. - Cars are not at all the loudest vehicles he measures, and heavy cars were louder than lighter ones. EVs are significantly heavier than equivalent ICE cars. - He specifically says that EVs are probably worse noise offenders at higher speeds due to being heavy and having wider tires. - He specifically measured passing Teslas and they were the exact same loudness as ICE cars. Hence the arguments make my point for me: EVs are not going to improve city noise levels much if at all. I dislike noise too. But EVs are not the solution here (and if you've ever listened to most public transit, neither is that).
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  Even ignoring the sound, which is definitely louder than an outdoor speaking voice, I can feel my neighbor start his truck every day, it’s completely stock and was made ~2015. Cars are loud as hell, and most new cars sold in the US are trucks.
  - amalgamated_inc 4y ago
    > most new cars sold in the US are trucks source?
    - micromacrofoot 4y ago
      roughly 80% are trucks and suvs https://jalopnik.com/trucks-and-suvs-are-now-over-80-percent-of-new-car-sale-1848427797 https://jalopnik.com/trucks-and-suvs-are-now-over-80-percent... 60% suvs 20% pickups 20% cars suvs are the biggest culprit, they’ve eaten the entire car market - some manufacturers only manufacture 1 or 2 models of cars at all now some people like to hand wave crossovers away, but they’re bigger, heavier, and less efficient than most sedans that they replaced from 10 years ago
      - amalgamated_inc 4y ago
        [dead]
  - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
    Over 80% are now trucks and SUVs apparently.
    - amalgamated_inc 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - micromacrofoot 4y ago
        Your argument is to seriously pick <1% and use that as a representation of the whole?
- derefr 4y ago
  I'm sitting beside a very, very loud street as I type this. My apartment faces onto a four-lane stroad, that climbs up a hill right in front of my building. Cars have to throttle up to climb hills. This is also "city driving." People seem to forget that many cities are not flat, but instead are quite hilly, or even mountainous (when a city is built a narrow valley, getting to most places often involves going up or down the sides of the valley.) Also, it's not just cars. Frequently, semi trucks go by my apartment, hissing and wheezing their pneumatic brakes as they recover them going up the hill, or expend them going down the hill. And this isn't even an arterial road in my city! And then there are the local motorcycle clubs that use this stroad to caravan together to places...
  - blamazon 4y ago
    Don't forget the car or motorcycle with a modified exhaust screaming by at 2am!
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Cars are loud, they just aren't nearly as loud as motorbikes.

False; most modern cars aren't very loud. At city speeds, the loudest part is the tire noise. At highway speeds, the wind noise. You only really hear the engine in ICE cars under heavy acceleration or if the car is designed to be loud (e.g. a sports car).

dangrossman 4y ago
I've certainly heard modern ICE cars where the engine noise was minimal. At the same time, I can scarcely recall sitting in a drive-through fast food line with my window open to order and NOT being annoyed at the level of engine noise from other cars making it harder to hear and be heard at the speaker. It's definitely not tire or wind noise when we're all just idling in line.
- amalgamated_inc 4y ago
  Yea, that's true. But I can walk around plenty of cities with cars driving within feet of me and not hear much noise besides the road noise at all. I suppose the design of the city makes a difference, e.g. are there sound-reflecting bare concrete walls everywhere (like many drive throughs).
karmelapple 4y ago
At the 10:15 mark in this video, different types of vehicles are measured for noise output. It would be pretty amazing if we could get around on e-bikes a lot more than we could today. Quiet, easy to ride… but in places that are not hospitable to bike riders, less safe than a car, which is likely why they won’t be adopted en masse. https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8 https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8
- amalgamated_inc 4y ago
  Watching this video now. Impressions: - In most of the city shots, you can clearly hear that road/tire noise and honking are by far the loudest noises. EVs won't change this. - In the Delft segment, a train was the most significant source of noise so they removed it. Yes, public transit is incredibly loud, much louder than cars. - The video specifically says that road/tire noise is louder than engine noises for most cars at certain speeds. EVs won't change this. - Cars are not at all the loudest vehicles he measures, and heavy cars were louder than lighter ones. EVs are significantly heavier than equivalent ICE cars. - He specifically says that EVs are probably worse noise offenders at higher speeds due to being heavy and having wider tires. - He specifically measured passing Teslas and they were the exact same loudness as ICE cars. Hence the arguments make my point for me: EVs are not going to improve city noise levels much if at all. I dislike noise too. But EVs are not the solution here (and if you've ever listened to most public transit, neither is that).
micromacrofoot 4y ago
Even ignoring the sound, which is definitely louder than an outdoor speaking voice, I can feel my neighbor start his truck every day, it’s completely stock and was made ~2015. Cars are loud as hell, and most new cars sold in the US are trucks.
- amalgamated_inc 4y ago
  > most new cars sold in the US are trucks source?
  - micromacrofoot 4y ago
    roughly 80% are trucks and suvs https://jalopnik.com/trucks-and-suvs-are-now-over-80-percent-of-new-car-sale-1848427797 https://jalopnik.com/trucks-and-suvs-are-now-over-80-percent... 60% suvs 20% pickups 20% cars suvs are the biggest culprit, they’ve eaten the entire car market - some manufacturers only manufacture 1 or 2 models of cars at all now some people like to hand wave crossovers away, but they’re bigger, heavier, and less efficient than most sedans that they replaced from 10 years ago
    - amalgamated_inc 4y ago
      [dead]
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  Over 80% are now trucks and SUVs apparently.
  - amalgamated_inc 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - micromacrofoot 4y ago
      Your argument is to seriously pick <1% and use that as a representation of the whole?
derefr 4y ago
I'm sitting beside a very, very loud street as I type this. My apartment faces onto a four-lane stroad, that climbs up a hill right in front of my building. Cars have to throttle up to climb hills. This is also "city driving." People seem to forget that many cities are not flat, but instead are quite hilly, or even mountainous (when a city is built a narrow valley, getting to most places often involves going up or down the sides of the valley.) Also, it's not just cars. Frequently, semi trucks go by my apartment, hissing and wheezing their pneumatic brakes as they recover them going up the hill, or expend them going down the hill. And this isn't even an arterial road in my city! And then there are the local motorcycle clubs that use this stroad to caravan together to places...
- blamazon 4y ago
  Don't forget the car or motorcycle with a modified exhaust screaming by at 2am!
Gigachad 4y ago
Cars are loud, they just aren't nearly as loud as motorbikes.