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Millions of tons of hydrogen will be necessary for fertilizer production and other industrial processes for the foreseeable future. If this hydrogen is produced

Millions of tons of hydrogen will be necessary for fertilizer production and other industrial processes for the foreseeable future. If this hydrogen is produced using electricity from no carbon sources, what would your objections be? What do oil companies have to do with hydrogen not derived from any of their products?

LarryMullins 4y ago
Both things are true. Green hydrogen is necessary for green fertilizer production, but green hydrogen for energy production is still a scam.
- skedaddle 4y ago
  There's no way to ship solar or hydro energy. And for shipping everything else -- how would you power a boat from India to the US? Or a plane? Hydrogen remains the only green (ish) game in town for these needs.
  - _0w8t 4y ago
    Methanol produced using green energy is much better alternative to hydrogen. It is vastly easier to handle and store.
    - _hypx 4y ago
      Methanol would be made from hydrogen. It is functionally just another way of storing it.
- thinkcontext 4y ago
  Who mentioned green hydrogen for energy production?
  - gadflyinyoureye 4y ago
    It's at least a possible grid scale storage solution. If you make ethanol from freely available hydrogen, you can convert the existing fleets (basically anything after like 2000 should be able to run ethanol with some hose and seal replacements). This is dramatically cheaper than telling the poor and middle class, "Let them by EVs (which cost a small mortgage)."
    - thinkcontext 4y ago
      Pray tell, what would the price of ethanol produced from green hydrogen be? The processes I've seen are either bio or electric with a catalyst but they are just at the science project stage, no where close to being scaled up. > This is dramatically cheaper than telling the poor and middle class, "Let them by EVs (which cost a small mortgage)." The 2023 Chevy Bolt has a list price of $26K before the subsidy. Tesla Model 3 is $43K before subsidy. The average price paid for a new car in 2022 was $50K. Of course no one is forcing the poor and middle class (or anyone else) to buy EVs. Most of them by used cars anyway, that market is definitely not mature yet, though the new subsidy can now be applied to used models. Even before the price war which has just broken out most mainstream industry analysts were predicting upfront, nonsubsidized price parity of like EV and ICE models mid to late this decade. That's on top of the significantly lower fuel and maintenance costs and of course the subsidies.

LarryMullins 4y ago

Both things are true. Green hydrogen is necessary for green fertilizer production, but green hydrogen for energy production is still a scam.

skedaddle 4y ago
There's no way to ship solar or hydro energy. And for shipping everything else -- how would you power a boat from India to the US? Or a plane? Hydrogen remains the only green (ish) game in town for these needs.
- _0w8t 4y ago
  Methanol produced using green energy is much better alternative to hydrogen. It is vastly easier to handle and store.
  - _hypx 4y ago
    Methanol would be made from hydrogen. It is functionally just another way of storing it.
thinkcontext 4y ago
Who mentioned green hydrogen for energy production?
- gadflyinyoureye 4y ago
  It's at least a possible grid scale storage solution. If you make ethanol from freely available hydrogen, you can convert the existing fleets (basically anything after like 2000 should be able to run ethanol with some hose and seal replacements). This is dramatically cheaper than telling the poor and middle class, "Let them by EVs (which cost a small mortgage)."
  - thinkcontext 4y ago
    Pray tell, what would the price of ethanol produced from green hydrogen be? The processes I've seen are either bio or electric with a catalyst but they are just at the science project stage, no where close to being scaled up. > This is dramatically cheaper than telling the poor and middle class, "Let them by EVs (which cost a small mortgage)." The 2023 Chevy Bolt has a list price of $26K before the subsidy. Tesla Model 3 is $43K before subsidy. The average price paid for a new car in 2022 was $50K. Of course no one is forcing the poor and middle class (or anyone else) to buy EVs. Most of them by used cars anyway, that market is definitely not mature yet, though the new subsidy can now be applied to used models. Even before the price war which has just broken out most mainstream industry analysts were predicting upfront, nonsubsidized price parity of like EV and ICE models mid to late this decade. That's on top of the significantly lower fuel and maintenance costs and of course the subsidies.