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If you're wondering what Mesa is: https://docs.mesa3d.org/index.html https://docs.mesa3d.org/index.html

pxc 4y ago
For Linux graphics support, getting the appropriate components upstreamed into Mesa is as major a milestone as getting the lower-level stuff mainlined into the kernel. From an end user perspective, you know that if the mainstream¹ drivers for a GPU are in Mesa, you won't have to install anything extra to get basic support (i.e., everything except GPGPU or AI stuff) working. All you need when your drivers are in Mesa is to be up-to-date! Every desktop-oriented distro ships a ton of stuff, including those drivers. And of course Mesa plays the same vital role in the graphics stack of the free Unices! The inclusion of the Gallium3D driver for the GPUs included in Apple's ARM SoCs is definitely a step to celebrate for those of us who hope to eventually run our favorite distro (of Linux or BSD!) on those new Mn Macs, hassle-free. :) -- 1: In the case of AMD, the most popular drivers are actually those shipped with Mesa, even though those are not the vendor's drivers (which are also open-source). With Intel, the vendor drivers are distributed as part of Mesa. I wanted to cover both, hence my use of 'mainstream' rather than 'official' here.
- detrites 4y ago
  Great explanation of the significance of this. I suspect others, like me, are watching Asahi's progress as a potential exit from - or compliment to - macOS, whilst still being able to use the excellent hardware natively. As such, some of us may be new to the Linux ecosystem, and elucidations like this are most helpful and appreciated.
  - malermeister 4y ago
    Apple Silicon is incredible, but macOS feels incredibly limiting for my preference compared to Linux. I would love to be able to use Asahi, but I'm worried the power management will never get good enough. Part of what makes those MacBooks so incredible is the battery life and I'm not sure I'm willing to give up on that...
- 7speter 4y ago
  Ive been really confused by what exactly the intel and amd drivers are relative to mesa and I’ve been wondering if my understanding is a common misnomer… so to put this all concise-ly, mesa was originally an implementation for opengl on linux (unix like?) systems but has since broadened in scope to be a sort of graphical software suite that include drivers for the likes of amd and intel?
  - pxc 4y ago
    Mesa does include a pure software implementation of OpenGL, but it also includes various hardware-specific implementations as well. Gallium3D, whose name also appears in the title, is like an intermediate representation used to implement graphics APIs across all this hardware, and also to enable support for multiple graphics APIs (various OpenGL versions/standards, maybe Vulkan, maybe some other stuff). (Mesa also includes implementations of some APIs which are not based on Gallium.) Personally, these days I think of Mesa the very middle of the userland driver layer of the standard Linux and free Unix graphics stack, which sits between the kernel drivers and any display server. On desktop, if you're not using NVIDIA, Mesa has you covered (it also includes an NVIDIA implementation, of course! it's just one that has, until very recently, been hampered by NVIDIA's firmware design). (On mobile, I think things are weirder.) It's a little messier than that in reality; you can mix and match some components like Vulkan drivers from different implementations without uninstalling anything or rebooting on a per-application basis, for one thing. Some AMD users use Mesa drivers generally but a non-Mesa Vulkan implementation for specific games, for instance. But basically I think this > [Mesa] has since broadened in scope to be a sort of graphical software suite that include drivers for the likes of amd and intel is about right.
    - 7speter 4y ago
      Thanks.
- cf100clunk 4y ago
  > The inclusion of the Gallium3D driver for the GPUs included in Apple's ARM SoCs is definitely a step to celebrate for those of us who hope to eventually run our favorite distro (of Linux or BSD!) on those new Mn Macs, hassle-free. :) Yes, that's precisely why I submitted this item even though Mesa is, of course, a great topic on its own.

pxc 4y ago

For Linux graphics support, getting the appropriate components upstreamed into Mesa is as major a milestone as getting the lower-level stuff mainlined into the kernel. From an end user perspective, you know that if the mainstream¹ drivers for a GPU are in Mesa, you won't have to install anything extra to get basic support (i.e., everything except GPGPU or AI stuff) working. All you need when your drivers are in Mesa is to be up-to-date! Every desktop-oriented distro ships a ton of stuff, including those drivers. And of course Mesa plays the same vital role in the graphics stack of the free Unices! The inclusion of the Gallium3D driver for the GPUs included in Apple's ARM SoCs is definitely a step to celebrate for those of us who hope to eventually run our favorite distro (of Linux or BSD!) on those new Mn Macs, hassle-free. :) -- 1: In the case of AMD, the most popular drivers are actually those shipped with Mesa, even though those are not the vendor's drivers (which are also open-source). With Intel, the vendor drivers are distributed as part of Mesa. I wanted to cover both, hence my use of 'mainstream' rather than 'official' here.

detrites 4y ago
Great explanation of the significance of this. I suspect others, like me, are watching Asahi's progress as a potential exit from - or compliment to - macOS, whilst still being able to use the excellent hardware natively. As such, some of us may be new to the Linux ecosystem, and elucidations like this are most helpful and appreciated.
- malermeister 4y ago
  Apple Silicon is incredible, but macOS feels incredibly limiting for my preference compared to Linux. I would love to be able to use Asahi, but I'm worried the power management will never get good enough. Part of what makes those MacBooks so incredible is the battery life and I'm not sure I'm willing to give up on that...
7speter 4y ago
Ive been really confused by what exactly the intel and amd drivers are relative to mesa and I’ve been wondering if my understanding is a common misnomer… so to put this all concise-ly, mesa was originally an implementation for opengl on linux (unix like?) systems but has since broadened in scope to be a sort of graphical software suite that include drivers for the likes of amd and intel?
- pxc 4y ago
  Mesa does include a pure software implementation of OpenGL, but it also includes various hardware-specific implementations as well. Gallium3D, whose name also appears in the title, is like an intermediate representation used to implement graphics APIs across all this hardware, and also to enable support for multiple graphics APIs (various OpenGL versions/standards, maybe Vulkan, maybe some other stuff). (Mesa also includes implementations of some APIs which are not based on Gallium.) Personally, these days I think of Mesa the very middle of the userland driver layer of the standard Linux and free Unix graphics stack, which sits between the kernel drivers and any display server. On desktop, if you're not using NVIDIA, Mesa has you covered (it also includes an NVIDIA implementation, of course! it's just one that has, until very recently, been hampered by NVIDIA's firmware design). (On mobile, I think things are weirder.) It's a little messier than that in reality; you can mix and match some components like Vulkan drivers from different implementations without uninstalling anything or rebooting on a per-application basis, for one thing. Some AMD users use Mesa drivers generally but a non-Mesa Vulkan implementation for specific games, for instance. But basically I think this > [Mesa] has since broadened in scope to be a sort of graphical software suite that include drivers for the likes of amd and intel is about right.
  - 7speter 4y ago
    Thanks.
cf100clunk 4y ago
> The inclusion of the Gallium3D driver for the GPUs included in Apple's ARM SoCs is definitely a step to celebrate for those of us who hope to eventually run our favorite distro (of Linux or BSD!) on those new Mn Macs, hassle-free. :) Yes, that's precisely why I submitted this item even though Mesa is, of course, a great topic on its own.