5 ms·

recreational doses are not necessarily therapeutic doses if you are taking a psychedelic as part of some therapy regime it is not a tripping balls level dose

by tempsy 4y ago

Ingaz 4y ago
It's actually could be other way. There is an anecdotic evidence that bad trips on first intake are more frequent with lower doses of psychedelics than higher. So it's very possible that those therapeutic sessions will be mind-shattering experiences and not like going to discotheque with friends.
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
Everything I've learned about therapeutic psilocybin treatment is that the doses involved are actually quite a bit higher than I've ever done on a trip at home. For example for psychedelic therapy with psilocybin, you would see a therapist a few times with no psilocybin, then you would have a session where you take something like the equivalent of 1 gram of dried mushrooms, and go through that session with the therapist. Then come back 1-2 weeks later and take something like a "heroic" dose or about 5 grams dried mushroom equivalent and go through that session with the therapist. Then you come back again two weeks later and have a sober session again to talk about all of it. My understanding is that this is generally how the well respected research studies have gone. The most I have ever done myself is 2 grams dried mushroom equivalent, and I usually stay under 1.
- sterlind 4y ago
  Jesus. five grams would scare me. does it just not work to use an eighth?
  - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
    So in a clinical setting they actually give 20-30mg of psilocybin directly. This works out to approximately 3-5g of dried cubensis depending on their potency.
- azinman2 4y ago
  I can’t imagine being completely detached from reality, and using that to work through really tough shit. Talk about a bad trip.
  - geertj 4y ago
    From my limited understanding, when a trip is used in a therapy session, it allows a patient to observe past trauma from an (emotional) distance, allowing them to process it. I can see how that would work. If trauma is so severe that you can’t even think of it, you’d push it away to the back of your mind where it would fester.
- dntrkv 4y ago
  5 grams? Most people would absolutely lose their shit on that. Even an eighth of good mushrooms is enough to obliterate most people. Like complete ego death. How long do these sessions last? What are the logistics? I’m very curious.
  - mathgladiator 4y ago
    9 hours on a heroic dose
  - batty_alex 4y ago
    An eighth won’t give you ego death. 5 grams is about where you start getting kaleidoscopic visuals and good hallucinations In all, the whole trip usually lasts a solid 4 hours. You’re going to be ready to pass out at the end
    - shlant 4y ago
      > An eighth won’t give you ego death. 5 grams is about where you start getting kaleidoscopic visuals and good hallucinations This is completely dependent on the strain[1] and potency of that batch. It also will depend on the person. To make any definitive statements on what people will experience on x grams is not an informed opinion. [1] https://leafly-cms-production.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/17113140/psilocybin-content.jpg?auto=format,compress&w=1100 https://leafly-cms-production.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2...
      - batty_alex 4y ago
        Leafley is great but, I’ve babysat enough people to tell you that an eighth (3.5g) isn’t going to put anyone on a shroom trip. They’ll definitely get stoned and have some euphoria on the downslope Update: p. Cubensis is what I’m most familiar with
        shlant 4y ago
        it's interesting because someone replied to another comment of mine saying 2g is tripping balls for them haha. I think it greatly varies from person to person - I for instance seem to have a greater tolerance for psychedelics than most people I know. I guess it would also depend on what you consider a "trip".
- mathgladiator 4y ago
  I've done a heroic dose without help, and it is very hard to describe. However, I'll describe one part: I went to the church of engineering and saw the manifest glory of all levels of abstraction that I understand and leverage to build _all_ at ONCE. I saw what I have been building in a new light ( https://www.adama-platform.com/ https://www.adama-platform.com/ ). The absolute beauty of mathematics made me cry. Ever since this event, I have been... ultra level. I'm just at peace. It's a wonderful experience. The whole "holy shit, I'm dying part..." was kind of rough.
  - SauciestGNU 4y ago
    Yeah the experience I have with heroic doses of psilocybin and LSD have been both the most challenging and the most transformative. People are scared by the idea of a bad (scary/unpleasant) trip, but it's important to remember that the drugs will wear off, and you can often take some deep learnings about yourself from that unpleasantness.
- shlant 4y ago
  > Everything I've learned about therapeutic psilocybin treatment is that the doses involved are actually quite a bit higher than I've ever done on a trip at home Where are you getting this info? All the good data I've seen is definitely not 5 grams dried. 20-25mg seems to be the sweet spot[1][2][3][4] which is around 2 grams[5]. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2206443 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2206443 [2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(22)00538-7/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9751063/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9751063/ [4] https://newatlas.com/johns-hopkins-psilocybin-study-finds-optimum-beneficial-dosage/18981/ https://newatlas.com/johns-hopkins-psilocybin-study-finds-op... [5] https://www.leafly.com/learn/psychedelics/how-to-dose-mushrooms https://www.leafly.com/learn/psychedelics/how-to-dose-mushro...
  - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
    Fuzzy memory from what I learned a few years ago. I guess i was really responding to the person who said “you’re not tripping balls in a therapeutic setting” - personally even 2 grams is “tripping balls” by my standards, but like I said 2 grams is the most I’ve ever done.
naasking 4y ago
A therapeutic MDMA dose is basically equivalent to a recreational dose from the literature I've read. Not sure about psilocybin. Ketamine dosage definitely leads to tripping balls.
- Overtonwindow 4y ago
  Not at all actually. I underwent 11 weeks of ketamine therapy. No hallucinations whatsoever, and I checked with others because I thought I was missing out! I felt physically drunk, but mentally absolutely clear. You may be thinking of a higher dose taken recreationally.
  - naasking 4y ago
    Or the reports I read were before they dialed in the dose.

recreational doses are not necessarily therapeutic doses if you are taking a psychedelic as part of some therapy regime it is not a tripping balls level dose

by tempsy 4y ago

recreational doses are not necessarily therapeutic doses if you are taking a psychedelic as part of some therapy regime it is not a tripping balls level dose

Ingaz 4y ago

It's actually could be other way. There is an anecdotic evidence that bad trips on first intake are more frequent with lower doses of psychedelics than higher. So it's very possible that those therapeutic sessions will be mind-shattering experiences and not like going to discotheque with friends.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago

Everything I've learned about therapeutic psilocybin treatment is that the doses involved are actually quite a bit higher than I've ever done on a trip at home. For example for psychedelic therapy with psilocybin, you would see a therapist a few times with no psilocybin, then you would have a session where you take something like the equivalent of 1 gram of dried mushrooms, and go through that session with the therapist. Then come back 1-2 weeks later and take something like a "heroic" dose or about 5 grams dried mushroom equivalent and go through that session with the therapist. Then you come back again two weeks later and have a sober session again to talk about all of it. My understanding is that this is generally how the well respected research studies have gone. The most I have ever done myself is 2 grams dried mushroom equivalent, and I usually stay under 1.

sterlind 4y ago
Jesus. five grams would scare me. does it just not work to use an eighth?
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  So in a clinical setting they actually give 20-30mg of psilocybin directly. This works out to approximately 3-5g of dried cubensis depending on their potency.
azinman2 4y ago
I can’t imagine being completely detached from reality, and using that to work through really tough shit. Talk about a bad trip.
- geertj 4y ago
  From my limited understanding, when a trip is used in a therapy session, it allows a patient to observe past trauma from an (emotional) distance, allowing them to process it. I can see how that would work. If trauma is so severe that you can’t even think of it, you’d push it away to the back of your mind where it would fester.
dntrkv 4y ago
5 grams? Most people would absolutely lose their shit on that. Even an eighth of good mushrooms is enough to obliterate most people. Like complete ego death. How long do these sessions last? What are the logistics? I’m very curious.
- mathgladiator 4y ago
  9 hours on a heroic dose
- batty_alex 4y ago
  An eighth won’t give you ego death. 5 grams is about where you start getting kaleidoscopic visuals and good hallucinations In all, the whole trip usually lasts a solid 4 hours. You’re going to be ready to pass out at the end
  - shlant 4y ago
    > An eighth won’t give you ego death. 5 grams is about where you start getting kaleidoscopic visuals and good hallucinations This is completely dependent on the strain[1] and potency of that batch. It also will depend on the person. To make any definitive statements on what people will experience on x grams is not an informed opinion. [1] https://leafly-cms-production.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/17113140/psilocybin-content.jpg?auto=format,compress&w=1100 https://leafly-cms-production.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2...
    - batty_alex 4y ago
      Leafley is great but, I’ve babysat enough people to tell you that an eighth (3.5g) isn’t going to put anyone on a shroom trip. They’ll definitely get stoned and have some euphoria on the downslope Update: p. Cubensis is what I’m most familiar with
      - shlant 4y ago
        it's interesting because someone replied to another comment of mine saying 2g is tripping balls for them haha. I think it greatly varies from person to person - I for instance seem to have a greater tolerance for psychedelics than most people I know. I guess it would also depend on what you consider a "trip".
mathgladiator 4y ago
I've done a heroic dose without help, and it is very hard to describe. However, I'll describe one part: I went to the church of engineering and saw the manifest glory of all levels of abstraction that I understand and leverage to build _all_ at ONCE. I saw what I have been building in a new light ( https://www.adama-platform.com/ https://www.adama-platform.com/ ). The absolute beauty of mathematics made me cry. Ever since this event, I have been... ultra level. I'm just at peace. It's a wonderful experience. The whole "holy shit, I'm dying part..." was kind of rough.
- SauciestGNU 4y ago
  Yeah the experience I have with heroic doses of psilocybin and LSD have been both the most challenging and the most transformative. People are scared by the idea of a bad (scary/unpleasant) trip, but it's important to remember that the drugs will wear off, and you can often take some deep learnings about yourself from that unpleasantness.
shlant 4y ago
> Everything I've learned about therapeutic psilocybin treatment is that the doses involved are actually quite a bit higher than I've ever done on a trip at home Where are you getting this info? All the good data I've seen is definitely not 5 grams dried. 20-25mg seems to be the sweet spot[1][2][3][4] which is around 2 grams[5]. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2206443 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2206443 [2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(22)00538-7/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9751063/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9751063/ [4] https://newatlas.com/johns-hopkins-psilocybin-study-finds-optimum-beneficial-dosage/18981/ https://newatlas.com/johns-hopkins-psilocybin-study-finds-op... [5] https://www.leafly.com/learn/psychedelics/how-to-dose-mushrooms https://www.leafly.com/learn/psychedelics/how-to-dose-mushro...
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  Fuzzy memory from what I learned a few years ago. I guess i was really responding to the person who said “you’re not tripping balls in a therapeutic setting” - personally even 2 grams is “tripping balls” by my standards, but like I said 2 grams is the most I’ve ever done.

naasking 4y ago

A therapeutic MDMA dose is basically equivalent to a recreational dose from the literature I've read. Not sure about psilocybin. Ketamine dosage definitely leads to tripping balls.

Overtonwindow 4y ago
Not at all actually. I underwent 11 weeks of ketamine therapy. No hallucinations whatsoever, and I checked with others because I thought I was missing out! I felt physically drunk, but mentally absolutely clear. You may be thinking of a higher dose taken recreationally.
- naasking 4y ago
  Or the reports I read were before they dialed in the dose.