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Related to age factors: so long as the "primary" development language for videogames remains C++ there's always going to be a multi-generational talent pool for

Related to age factors: so long as the "primary" development language for videogames remains C++ there's always going to be a multi-generational talent pool for C++. Young naive programmers get into videogames until they burn out or are laid off due to ageism then there's "always" "fresh" new C++ talent for other industries too immediately following those videogame roles (assuming the burnout isn't total, such as strokes). COBOL got to where it is when there stopped being entry level jobs for it. Videogames keep a massive entry level door (full of "passion") open for C++. That's going to "naturally" keep C++ development salaries low for the foreseeable future.

kilgnad 4y ago
Oh interesting. You think videogames are influencing the rest of the industry? That actually makes a lot of sense. Are there other sources (articles, research, blogposts) that talk about this?
lelanthran 4y ago
> Related to age factors: so long as the "primary" development language for videogames remains C++ there's always going to be a multi-generational talent pool for C++. Young naive programmers get into videogames until they burn out or are laid off due to ageism then there's "always" "fresh" new C++ talent for other industries too immediately following those videogame roles (assuming the burnout isn't total, such as strokes). > COBOL got to where it is when there stopped being entry level jobs for it. Videogames keep a massive entry level door (full of "passion") open for C++. That's going to "naturally" keep C++ development salaries low for the foreseeable future. Not anymore. I am frequenting gamedev forums, and reading gamedev chatter in general (seeing youtube videos on game conferences, presentations on games development, etc). Maybe 1 in 10 of the people in these gamedev places actually program in C++. Mostly they'll use Unity (C#) or Unreal Engine Blueprints, with some Godot getting popular and a few statistical-noise engines being used (Love2d, etc). What you are saying used to be true; on gamedev forums almost everyone used to be able to program in C++. Now very few do.
- amyjess 4y ago
  My question is what engines are the AAA companies hiring people to work with? Yes, Unity is the default engine in the indie scene, but what are EA, Ubisoft, Embracer, Take Two, etc. hiring people to work with? Because these are the meat grinders who hire fresh college grads by the hundreds and work them like oxen until they burn out.
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    Good point. I've been looking almost exclusively at small teams. I wonder how many programmers are used at the AAA publishers. Maybe someone on HN who works as a gamedev (ISTR one or two people in the past saying that they worked for AAA developers) can answer that one.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  Yes, C# is definitely getting a leg up these days (nearly a decade later than Microsoft's and Mono/Xamarin's separate big attempts to make it happen), but it is still seen as more of a "scripting language" than source or engine language. Unity itself is still built in C/C++. Godot is written in C/C++ and its default scripting language is the odd GDScript with some unique C/C++-isms and it takes extra effort to use C# with Godot (though a lot of post-Unity devs seem to be growing happy with C# in Godot these days). Unity is semi-closed/proprietary source so doesn't get a lot of indie dev contributions, but Godot is open source and I have heard of indie devs needing to contribute C/C++ upstream. (As an aside: I've got my eyes on FNA which just hit some milestones with using .NET 7 AOT for pure C# games on the major consoles. That's pretty exciting.) Unreal is the truly wild one because to my understanding Unreal Engine Blueprints are a terrible half-baked not-quite-scripting language and most Unreal developers have to do most of their "proper" scripting in C/C++ directly. (With some statistical anomalies allegedly doing things like bolting in Lua interpreters.) But yeah, outside of indies and small game companies my impression is that C/C++ is still king and there's some consternation that developers learning from the indie side are sometimes, if interviewing for AAA teams, getting shuttled to "tools" positions because that's where AAA's only C# code lives (in non-critical tools outside of the games). (Though that's mostly anecdata from reading similar gamedev forums.)

kilgnad 4y ago

Oh interesting. You think videogames are influencing the rest of the industry? That actually makes a lot of sense. Are there other sources (articles, research, blogposts) that talk about this?

lelanthran 4y ago

> Related to age factors: so long as the "primary" development language for videogames remains C++ there's always going to be a multi-generational talent pool for C++. Young naive programmers get into videogames until they burn out or are laid off due to ageism then there's "always" "fresh" new C++ talent for other industries too immediately following those videogame roles (assuming the burnout isn't total, such as strokes). > COBOL got to where it is when there stopped being entry level jobs for it. Videogames keep a massive entry level door (full of "passion") open for C++. That's going to "naturally" keep C++ development salaries low for the foreseeable future. Not anymore. I am frequenting gamedev forums, and reading gamedev chatter in general (seeing youtube videos on game conferences, presentations on games development, etc). Maybe 1 in 10 of the people in these gamedev places actually program in C++. Mostly they'll use Unity (C#) or Unreal Engine Blueprints, with some Godot getting popular and a few statistical-noise engines being used (Love2d, etc). What you are saying used to be true; on gamedev forums almost everyone used to be able to program in C++. Now very few do.

amyjess 4y ago
My question is what engines are the AAA companies hiring people to work with? Yes, Unity is the default engine in the indie scene, but what are EA, Ubisoft, Embracer, Take Two, etc. hiring people to work with? Because these are the meat grinders who hire fresh college grads by the hundreds and work them like oxen until they burn out.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  Good point. I've been looking almost exclusively at small teams. I wonder how many programmers are used at the AAA publishers. Maybe someone on HN who works as a gamedev (ISTR one or two people in the past saying that they worked for AAA developers) can answer that one.
WorldMaker 4y ago
Yes, C# is definitely getting a leg up these days (nearly a decade later than Microsoft's and Mono/Xamarin's separate big attempts to make it happen), but it is still seen as more of a "scripting language" than source or engine language. Unity itself is still built in C/C++. Godot is written in C/C++ and its default scripting language is the odd GDScript with some unique C/C++-isms and it takes extra effort to use C# with Godot (though a lot of post-Unity devs seem to be growing happy with C# in Godot these days). Unity is semi-closed/proprietary source so doesn't get a lot of indie dev contributions, but Godot is open source and I have heard of indie devs needing to contribute C/C++ upstream. (As an aside: I've got my eyes on FNA which just hit some milestones with using .NET 7 AOT for pure C# games on the major consoles. That's pretty exciting.) Unreal is the truly wild one because to my understanding Unreal Engine Blueprints are a terrible half-baked not-quite-scripting language and most Unreal developers have to do most of their "proper" scripting in C/C++ directly. (With some statistical anomalies allegedly doing things like bolting in Lua interpreters.) But yeah, outside of indies and small game companies my impression is that C/C++ is still king and there's some consternation that developers learning from the indie side are sometimes, if interviewing for AAA teams, getting shuttled to "tools" positions because that's where AAA's only C# code lives (in non-critical tools outside of the games). (Though that's mostly anecdata from reading similar gamedev forums.)