7 ms·

I'm reminded of a fascinating series of Reddit threads, starting back in 2009, from somebody who convinced himself he "could handle anything once" and decided t

I'm reminded of a fascinating series of Reddit threads, starting back in 2009, from somebody who convinced himself he "could handle anything once" and decided to try heroin, only to rapidly spiral out of control: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/wef6hn/the_saga_of_an_average_guy_who_spontaneously/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/wef6...

pavel_lishin 4y ago
I'm only on the second update, and it seems like this guy speed-ran addiction: > I can't stop crying. Fuck heroin. Fuck my life. I guess I don't need to say that since heroin pretty much fucked my life for me in under two weeks, I just want to die.
scarmig 4y ago
The issue with Reddit is that the story is as likely as not to be fake. Particularly, here, I don't think people are at risk of serious withdrawal after only two weeks of heroin use. Though heroin use is obviously one of the dumbest things anyone can do.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- atdrummond 4y ago
  As someone who has used opiates for well over a decade (for medical reasons), heroin and stronger synthetic opioids can absolutely cause an opioid naive individual to have withdrawal symptoms after even a week. This is why codeine OTC recommends no more than three consecutive days of use.
  - mise_en_place 4y ago
    It depends on if you have a specific antibody that targets specific opiate compounds. For example, oxycodone was very dysphoric and caused me even more pain, whereas hydrocodone caused me the intended therapeutic effect of euphoria and analgesia
    - cellis 4y ago
      Hydrocodone has to be one of the best drugs known to man. I had a very small prescription for my wisdom teeth and I instantly understood the opioid dependency problem.
      - devilbunny 4y ago
        It's all about your body chemistry. I'm a redhead; red hair is a result of a mutation in the preopiomelanocortin (POMC) system, so opioids work funny on us. I've had hydrocodone/acetaminophen(paracetamol) pills, and they felt like... taking acetaminophen. No euphoria, not even increased pain relief. I quit after one dose, because what was the point in making myself constipated?
        Nihilartikel 4y ago
        I dunno man. My mom and dad were both smack heads. They both went through recovery but had substantial relapses. My mom was as ginger as they come but really couldn't get off the horse. Dad found solace in terminal alcoholism. So.. I dunno. Thoughts?
        devilbunny 4y ago
        Booze doesn't work that way, and there are a lot of mutations that can cause gingerism - but the one I have, opioids don't do much of anything. Never had the hard stuff and not inclined to try. But the oral ones might as well be cornstarch.
  - grafporno 4y ago
    Wait, you've got over-the-counter opiates in the US (I assume it's the US)? What?
    - rejectfinite 4y ago
      The UK has codeine OTC... you assume. Everyone on the internet is american. Its funny. ahha
      - nwiswell 4y ago
        Not that unreasonable a guess. It's very late in Europe right now (currently 4 AM GMT, perhaps 2 AM when that was posted), and you know YC is an American company... right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30210378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30210378
        benj111 4y ago
        Why is the ownership structure of YC important? You know how the internet works right? For better or worse, 'american' is the defacto standard on the internet, but please remember that only a small percentage of the global population is USian the in all probability the person you're speaking to isn't from the US.
        hnfong 4y ago
        The English (no pun intended) speaking population is more likely to be from the US than the global population. Disclaimer: Not English. Not American.
        benj111 4y ago
        I would say that the us accounts for less than half of English speaking netizens. UK, Australia, new zealand Canada already add up to a sizeable chunk of the US's population. Then add in 1% of India, or China (I assume some proportion has access outside the great firewall) and you've got a population bigger than the US.
  - refurb 4y ago
    That’s true, but the withdrawal after a week or two isnt going to be the “i just want to die” type. Severe withdrawal comes after dose escaation and youre not going to develop that much tolerance after 2 weeks. Im not saying it wouldnt be unpleasant, but its not goibg to be the Trainspotting version.
- Teever 4y ago
  It's amazing how you're like a prime example of what's being talked about here and you're totally unaware of that. I don't mean that to be a dick. I mean that because I care. Opiates are dangerous. Very dangerous.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- HWR_14 4y ago
  I'm surprised at your statement. In response to a thread about how intelligent people erroneously think their intelligence protects them from addiction, and the story of one person getting addicted, your response is "that couldn't happen to us".
- munificent 4y ago
  >* The issue with Reddit is that the story is as likely as not to be fake.* Maybe, but if so, it's a fake narrative they've maintained consistently for over a decade: https://www.reddit.com/user/SpontaneousH/ https://www.reddit.com/user/SpontaneousH/
- aj7 4y ago
  I had serious withdrawal symptoms 24 hours after medicating myself with controlled doses of hydromorphone after surgery. It’s always been remarkable to me how many people confidently assert I wasn’t addicted.
  - benj111 4y ago
    Conversely I'm on long term anti depressants and I get withdrawal symptoms if I forget to take them, but no one is ever referred to as being addicted to anti depressants. I suspect there are different (social) mechanisms at work here, but addiction is generally applied to one specific form of drug reliance.
    - skissane 4y ago
      > but no one is ever referred to as being addicted to anti depressants People who are sceptical of antidepressants, such as Professor Joanna Moncrieff (University of College London), do speak of them as “addictive”, and consider their use to (at least sometimes) be a case of “prescribed drug dependency”, and also speak of “withdrawal” from them
- froglets 4y ago
  I had very noticeable withdrawal after 3 weeks of using opiates as prescribed for a ruptured disc. Stopped because I was pain free a few days after surgery to fix it, and felt like I was going to die.
runako 4y ago
This thread, and the linked AMAs, are amazing. Thanks for posting. (Incidentally, I don't really care if they are 100% true or near-true or simply entirely plausible.)
ninjaa 4y ago
Great story, I believe
renewiltord 4y ago
After a motorcycle accident I spent a week on hydromorphone, a month on oxycodone, and occasional fentanyl. I have some oxycodone left over at home and, if I'm being honest, I don't feel the slightest desire to do it. I haven't for the 9 months so far I've had it and I doubt I ever will. I live in SF as well so fentanyl is easy to come by, should I so desire it. Reading the literature, it appears that this is the experience for 9/10 people prescribed the drug. The problem, of course, is that 10% is a large number at scale. Obviously, I've had no experience with heroin. But considering my experience with fentanyl, I can quite easily say that most of us are not susceptible. This strikes me as yet another example of overstating risks. PTSD is the canonical case, of course, where the majority of people experiencing trauma won't get PTSD and even a third of people experiencing major trauma won't get PTSD. The short version is that the average human is very resilient.

pavel_lishin 4y ago

I'm only on the second update, and it seems like this guy speed-ran addiction: > I can't stop crying. Fuck heroin. Fuck my life. I guess I don't need to say that since heroin pretty much fucked my life for me in under two weeks, I just want to die.

scarmig 4y ago

The issue with Reddit is that the story is as likely as not to be fake. Particularly, here, I don't think people are at risk of serious withdrawal after only two weeks of heroin use. Though heroin use is obviously one of the dumbest things anyone can do.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
atdrummond 4y ago
As someone who has used opiates for well over a decade (for medical reasons), heroin and stronger synthetic opioids can absolutely cause an opioid naive individual to have withdrawal symptoms after even a week. This is why codeine OTC recommends no more than three consecutive days of use.
- mise_en_place 4y ago
  It depends on if you have a specific antibody that targets specific opiate compounds. For example, oxycodone was very dysphoric and caused me even more pain, whereas hydrocodone caused me the intended therapeutic effect of euphoria and analgesia
  - cellis 4y ago
    Hydrocodone has to be one of the best drugs known to man. I had a very small prescription for my wisdom teeth and I instantly understood the opioid dependency problem.
    - devilbunny 4y ago
      It's all about your body chemistry. I'm a redhead; red hair is a result of a mutation in the preopiomelanocortin (POMC) system, so opioids work funny on us. I've had hydrocodone/acetaminophen(paracetamol) pills, and they felt like... taking acetaminophen. No euphoria, not even increased pain relief. I quit after one dose, because what was the point in making myself constipated?
      - Nihilartikel 4y ago
        I dunno man. My mom and dad were both smack heads. They both went through recovery but had substantial relapses. My mom was as ginger as they come but really couldn't get off the horse. Dad found solace in terminal alcoholism. So.. I dunno. Thoughts?
        devilbunny 4y ago
        Booze doesn't work that way, and there are a lot of mutations that can cause gingerism - but the one I have, opioids don't do much of anything. Never had the hard stuff and not inclined to try. But the oral ones might as well be cornstarch.
- grafporno 4y ago
  Wait, you've got over-the-counter opiates in the US (I assume it's the US)? What?
  - rejectfinite 4y ago
    The UK has codeine OTC... you assume. Everyone on the internet is american. Its funny. ahha
    - nwiswell 4y ago
      Not that unreasonable a guess. It's very late in Europe right now (currently 4 AM GMT, perhaps 2 AM when that was posted), and you know YC is an American company... right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30210378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30210378
      - benj111 4y ago
        Why is the ownership structure of YC important? You know how the internet works right? For better or worse, 'american' is the defacto standard on the internet, but please remember that only a small percentage of the global population is USian the in all probability the person you're speaking to isn't from the US.
        hnfong 4y ago
        The English (no pun intended) speaking population is more likely to be from the US than the global population. Disclaimer: Not English. Not American.
        benj111 4y ago
        I would say that the us accounts for less than half of English speaking netizens. UK, Australia, new zealand Canada already add up to a sizeable chunk of the US's population. Then add in 1% of India, or China (I assume some proportion has access outside the great firewall) and you've got a population bigger than the US.
- refurb 4y ago
  That’s true, but the withdrawal after a week or two isnt going to be the “i just want to die” type. Severe withdrawal comes after dose escaation and youre not going to develop that much tolerance after 2 weeks. Im not saying it wouldnt be unpleasant, but its not goibg to be the Trainspotting version.
Teever 4y ago
It's amazing how you're like a prime example of what's being talked about here and you're totally unaware of that. I don't mean that to be a dick. I mean that because I care. Opiates are dangerous. Very dangerous.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
HWR_14 4y ago
I'm surprised at your statement. In response to a thread about how intelligent people erroneously think their intelligence protects them from addiction, and the story of one person getting addicted, your response is "that couldn't happen to us".
munificent 4y ago
>* The issue with Reddit is that the story is as likely as not to be fake.* Maybe, but if so, it's a fake narrative they've maintained consistently for over a decade: https://www.reddit.com/user/SpontaneousH/ https://www.reddit.com/user/SpontaneousH/
aj7 4y ago
I had serious withdrawal symptoms 24 hours after medicating myself with controlled doses of hydromorphone after surgery. It’s always been remarkable to me how many people confidently assert I wasn’t addicted.
- benj111 4y ago
  Conversely I'm on long term anti depressants and I get withdrawal symptoms if I forget to take them, but no one is ever referred to as being addicted to anti depressants. I suspect there are different (social) mechanisms at work here, but addiction is generally applied to one specific form of drug reliance.
  - skissane 4y ago
    > but no one is ever referred to as being addicted to anti depressants People who are sceptical of antidepressants, such as Professor Joanna Moncrieff (University of College London), do speak of them as “addictive”, and consider their use to (at least sometimes) be a case of “prescribed drug dependency”, and also speak of “withdrawal” from them
froglets 4y ago
I had very noticeable withdrawal after 3 weeks of using opiates as prescribed for a ruptured disc. Stopped because I was pain free a few days after surgery to fix it, and felt like I was going to die.

runako 4y ago

This thread, and the linked AMAs, are amazing. Thanks for posting. (Incidentally, I don't really care if they are 100% true or near-true or simply entirely plausible.)

ninjaa 4y ago

Great story, I believe

renewiltord 4y ago

After a motorcycle accident I spent a week on hydromorphone, a month on oxycodone, and occasional fentanyl. I have some oxycodone left over at home and, if I'm being honest, I don't feel the slightest desire to do it. I haven't for the 9 months so far I've had it and I doubt I ever will. I live in SF as well so fentanyl is easy to come by, should I so desire it. Reading the literature, it appears that this is the experience for 9/10 people prescribed the drug. The problem, of course, is that 10% is a large number at scale. Obviously, I've had no experience with heroin. But considering my experience with fentanyl, I can quite easily say that most of us are not susceptible. This strikes me as yet another example of overstating risks. PTSD is the canonical case, of course, where the majority of people experiencing trauma won't get PTSD and even a third of people experiencing major trauma won't get PTSD. The short version is that the average human is very resilient.