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> Absolutely. Nearly everyone I know left college doe-eyed and ready to dedicate a piece of their soul to their shiny new job When did you graduate college? In

> Absolutely. Nearly everyone I know left college doe-eyed and ready to dedicate a piece of their soul to their shiny new job When did you graduate college? In the social media era, the sentiment has been more about "fuck you, pay me" and "H.R. is not your friend" type ideology. This is especially true in recent years, where a lot of college graduates have been exposed to years of /r/antiwork in their daily Reddit browsing before they even get their first jobs. A lot of juniors want to do good work and produce good results, but it's common for them to believe that corporations are evil, capitalism is a failed ideology, and that it's virtuous to minimize their labor input while maximizing their compensation. It can take a while to convince some of these new hires that as their manager, I'm a person too.

bradleyjg 4y ago
This business about “fuck capitalism” and so on is also infantile, just in the opposite direction.
- HarryHirsch 4y ago
  That's an assertion of belief, not a statement of fact. You'd have to bring arguments why the interests of workers and owners are congruent (which they are not).
  - bradleyjg 4y ago
    I don’t need to do any such thing. Just point out that no reasonable alternative has been proposed by anyone and conclude that it’s therefore infantile whining.
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      German-style Rhine capitalism with co-determination for labor unions and a robust social safety net that isn’t even as leftist as the Scandinavian countries.
      - bradleyjg 4y ago
        It’s still capitalism, so if you want that why are you going around saying “fuck capitalism”? Scandinavia has capitalism too, welfare capitalism, sure, but still capitalism.
        Apocryphon 4y ago
        Who said I'm going around saying that? But it's still a reasonable alternative to the form of capitalism currently practiced in America. So you are incorrect in saying that nothing is being proposed.
DoughnutHole 4y ago
People can hold a lot of cognitively dissonant but valid viewpoints at the same time. I put effort into my work because taking pride in one’s work nourishes the soul. I try to meet my manager’s expectations because I know him, he’s a good guy, and I know he’s got my back to the extent he is able to. I also know that my employer as an entity abstracted through a dozen tiers of hierarchy would feed me and my manager both into a woodchipper if it would increase quarterly gains more than the alternative would. I work to minimise how much of myself I give to my employer, and maximise how much I give to myself and to the relationships I value (which still includes workplace relationships!).
Apocryphon 4y ago
You being a person is not mutually exclusive with any of those other sentiments. They are able to coexist.
- WeylandYutani 4y ago
  After WW2 they found out that a lot of the Germans who commited war crimes were completely normal and decent people just following orders. Managers aren't bad guys but they WILL follow orders.
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    Yes, be a good German, right? You can say no… I did when my then boss asked me to fire people because he personally didn’t like them.
dougmwne 4y ago
Yes, I am older than that. I truly feel for a lot of the younger people who came of age during pandemic isolation and raised by YouTubers. I work with some of them and they are not having an easy adjustment into adulthood. Good on you for putting in the effort. The corporation cannot be your friend, but a good manager can be.
triceratops 4y ago
> it's virtuous to minimize their labor input while maximizing their compensation It's not? That's what capitalism is. More productivity with fewer inputs.
sangnoir 4y ago
> It can take a while to convince some of these new hires that as their manager, I'm a person too. However the company is not a person - RMoney be damned

bradleyjg 4y ago

This business about “fuck capitalism” and so on is also infantile, just in the opposite direction.

HarryHirsch 4y ago
That's an assertion of belief, not a statement of fact. You'd have to bring arguments why the interests of workers and owners are congruent (which they are not).
- bradleyjg 4y ago
  I don’t need to do any such thing. Just point out that no reasonable alternative has been proposed by anyone and conclude that it’s therefore infantile whining.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    German-style Rhine capitalism with co-determination for labor unions and a robust social safety net that isn’t even as leftist as the Scandinavian countries.
    - bradleyjg 4y ago
      It’s still capitalism, so if you want that why are you going around saying “fuck capitalism”? Scandinavia has capitalism too, welfare capitalism, sure, but still capitalism.
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        Who said I'm going around saying that? But it's still a reasonable alternative to the form of capitalism currently practiced in America. So you are incorrect in saying that nothing is being proposed.

DoughnutHole 4y ago

People can hold a lot of cognitively dissonant but valid viewpoints at the same time. I put effort into my work because taking pride in one’s work nourishes the soul. I try to meet my manager’s expectations because I know him, he’s a good guy, and I know he’s got my back to the extent he is able to. I also know that my employer as an entity abstracted through a dozen tiers of hierarchy would feed me and my manager both into a woodchipper if it would increase quarterly gains more than the alternative would. I work to minimise how much of myself I give to my employer, and maximise how much I give to myself and to the relationships I value (which still includes workplace relationships!).

Apocryphon 4y ago

You being a person is not mutually exclusive with any of those other sentiments. They are able to coexist.

WeylandYutani 4y ago
After WW2 they found out that a lot of the Germans who commited war crimes were completely normal and decent people just following orders. Managers aren't bad guys but they WILL follow orders.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  Yes, be a good German, right? You can say no… I did when my then boss asked me to fire people because he personally didn’t like them.

dougmwne 4y ago

Yes, I am older than that. I truly feel for a lot of the younger people who came of age during pandemic isolation and raised by YouTubers. I work with some of them and they are not having an easy adjustment into adulthood. Good on you for putting in the effort. The corporation cannot be your friend, but a good manager can be.

triceratops 4y ago

> it's virtuous to minimize their labor input while maximizing their compensation It's not? That's what capitalism is. More productivity with fewer inputs.

sangnoir 4y ago

> It can take a while to convince some of these new hires that as their manager, I'm a person too. However the company is not a person - RMoney be damned