7 ms·

This place isn't your home, these people aren't your friends and your executive leadership would run you over with their cars if you stood between them and reve

This place isn't your home, these people aren't your friends and your executive leadership would run you over with their cars if you stood between them and revenue growth. Your relationship to work changes forever. You will never again believe that you are "critical" to the company or that the company is interested in you as a person. This has always always been the case. Grow up.

cebert 4y ago
If you think work and your coworkers are friends or family, you’re in for a world of hurt.
- ROTMetro 4y ago
  I've worked at two companies where people pooled vacation time for sick co-workers who had already been granted extended leave time by the company way past the company norm when they got cancer. If that is not an act of friendship what is it? I've worked on a team where we scheduled our production schedule and the company their release schedule for a year around making sure a co-worker could go back to their country of origin for a couple of months. This was neither a technically irreplicable nor senior individual but they were valued because they were part of our team. When I had kids my coworkers surprised me with a ton of baby clothes. Those people were definitely my friends and we definitely had each others backs. I've been to more work friend's weddings than any other weddings. I burned out and crashed and burned, but it was more about me finding my self worth in work and the need to be superman and get that recognition and then later to keep funding a lifestyle that I again has substituted as my value and self worth.
  - drewcoo 4y ago
    > I've worked at two companies where people pooled vacation time for sick co-workers who had already been granted extended leave time by the company way past the company norm when they got cancer. If that is not an act of friendship what is it? It is a sad attempt at compensating for a missing social safety net.
    - ROTMetro 4y ago
      True, but it is still an act of friendship.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
mattikus 4y ago
I think you're being a bit uncharitable and jaded here. For many, events like these are actually the catalyst that causes one to "grow up", which is what the author is conveying.
- dougmwne 4y ago
  Absolutely. Nearly everyone I know left college doe-eyed and ready to dedicate a piece of their soul to their shiny new job. Everyone learned otherwise one person at a time. Some worked for “we’re all a family” companies and were able to remain innocent ignorants till the day the axe fell.
  - PragmaticPulp 4y ago
    > Absolutely. Nearly everyone I know left college doe-eyed and ready to dedicate a piece of their soul to their shiny new job When did you graduate college? In the social media era, the sentiment has been more about "fuck you, pay me" and "H.R. is not your friend" type ideology. This is especially true in recent years, where a lot of college graduates have been exposed to years of /r/antiwork in their daily Reddit browsing before they even get their first jobs. A lot of juniors want to do good work and produce good results, but it's common for them to believe that corporations are evil, capitalism is a failed ideology, and that it's virtuous to minimize their labor input while maximizing their compensation. It can take a while to convince some of these new hires that as their manager, I'm a person too.
    - bradleyjg 4y ago
      This business about “fuck capitalism” and so on is also infantile, just in the opposite direction.
      - HarryHirsch 4y ago
        That's an assertion of belief, not a statement of fact. You'd have to bring arguments why the interests of workers and owners are congruent (which they are not).
ok_coo 4y ago
While I agree with this perspective, these companies go out of their way to market to their employees to make the job their whole identity. They are not blameless.
- atomicUpdate 4y ago
  Burger King ends every commercial with “you rule!”. I don’t believe them and build my life around what they say either.
  - anon7725 4y ago
    So you spend a good portion of your waking hours at Burger King and feed and clothe yourself from the money that you make there?
zug_zug 4y ago
This is true, but I think it's misplaced to bitterly place this on the individual. I have worked at multiple companies than have disingenously referred to themselves as "family," always talking about "supporting your growth here," etc. It's just outright dishonest and for whatever reason it's the industry standard. Can't blame people for taking it at face value for a few years. And honestly, one generation ago (and in certain fields like police), your work is a permanent group of supporters. It's not like such a thing is impossible.
- bradleyjg 4y ago
  Four years of high school and at least four years of college, both generally requiring courses in history and literature. Sometimes also psychology, philosophy, rhetoric, and/or logic. On paper these are extremely well educated people from top institutions that boast about producing well rounded individuals. What happened?
mc32 4y ago
Agreed. This is a naive point of view. The company and worker agree on some terms and if the terms stop working for either one, that's the end of the line. It sucks when that comes to be but we have to realize that we as workers in any capacity are only useful when our input aligns with the goals of the company. There is leeway, but that diminishes when time gets tough. Blue collar workers, union or no union, always understood this. It's white collar workers who feel blindsided because they believed the company propaganda. The propaganda is not itself a bad thing but workers need to understand the use of propaganda and why it's used. If you've ever worked with blue collar workers you know they never believe in any of the sunshine management talk and instead deride it with contempt. White collar workers would be well advised to learn from their blue collar brethren.
- infamouscow 4y ago
  As Mark Twain put it, it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
- hef19898 4y ago
  There are those white collar who realize that along the line, those that brace company propaganda and turn carrierist and those that stay naive to be abused by the second group. There is a reason I get along better with blue collar folks than, especially the more inexperienced, white collar ones. Usually, blue collar folks have less problems following "orders" as well. This professional discipline makes a lot of things a lot easier.
NegativeLatency 4y ago
It may have always been the case but it's often cleverly disguised intentionally by companies so they can exploit workers (especially in more white-collar environments and even more so in tech startups), so it's not exactly surprising that at least people would be caught unaware.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ROTMetro 4y ago
Grew up with parents working in startups/small tech companies in Santa Cruz from the late seventies through the 2000s. No, it has not always been the case. It's sad you are happy to accept it as both acceptable and the norm. Grownups realize they have the agency to choose the environment they place themselves in and choose to spend the majority of their day somewhere not adversarial.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
stumblindrunk 4y ago
> your executive leadership would run you over with their cars if you stood between them and revenue growth. This is ridiculous. I’m sure such sociopaths exist but there’s literally 30MM+ companies in the US. If only 1MM have an executive team this proposes there are millions of near murderers about. Pretty sure there’d be more murders. It’s stupidly hyperbolic and actually implicitly assumes that which it purports to reject. Namely, it conflates job loss with death, giving companies more agency over your life than they actually have; the phrasing ignores its own first statement, in pursuit of clickbait nonsense.
ricardobeat 4y ago
Deriding the need to belong and do meaningful work is quite cynical and… immature. Not everyone is in a situation where the only option is to harden their shell and submit to a corporation. Some will find a family or great friends at work. It might mean limiting your career choices, but it is not a character flaw.

cebert 4y ago

If you think work and your coworkers are friends or family, you’re in for a world of hurt.

ROTMetro 4y ago
I've worked at two companies where people pooled vacation time for sick co-workers who had already been granted extended leave time by the company way past the company norm when they got cancer. If that is not an act of friendship what is it? I've worked on a team where we scheduled our production schedule and the company their release schedule for a year around making sure a co-worker could go back to their country of origin for a couple of months. This was neither a technically irreplicable nor senior individual but they were valued because they were part of our team. When I had kids my coworkers surprised me with a ton of baby clothes. Those people were definitely my friends and we definitely had each others backs. I've been to more work friend's weddings than any other weddings. I burned out and crashed and burned, but it was more about me finding my self worth in work and the need to be superman and get that recognition and then later to keep funding a lifestyle that I again has substituted as my value and self worth.
- drewcoo 4y ago
  > I've worked at two companies where people pooled vacation time for sick co-workers who had already been granted extended leave time by the company way past the company norm when they got cancer. If that is not an act of friendship what is it? It is a sad attempt at compensating for a missing social safety net.
  - ROTMetro 4y ago
    True, but it is still an act of friendship.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

mattikus 4y ago

I think you're being a bit uncharitable and jaded here. For many, events like these are actually the catalyst that causes one to "grow up", which is what the author is conveying.

dougmwne 4y ago
Absolutely. Nearly everyone I know left college doe-eyed and ready to dedicate a piece of their soul to their shiny new job. Everyone learned otherwise one person at a time. Some worked for “we’re all a family” companies and were able to remain innocent ignorants till the day the axe fell.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  > Absolutely. Nearly everyone I know left college doe-eyed and ready to dedicate a piece of their soul to their shiny new job When did you graduate college? In the social media era, the sentiment has been more about "fuck you, pay me" and "H.R. is not your friend" type ideology. This is especially true in recent years, where a lot of college graduates have been exposed to years of /r/antiwork in their daily Reddit browsing before they even get their first jobs. A lot of juniors want to do good work and produce good results, but it's common for them to believe that corporations are evil, capitalism is a failed ideology, and that it's virtuous to minimize their labor input while maximizing their compensation. It can take a while to convince some of these new hires that as their manager, I'm a person too.
  - bradleyjg 4y ago
    This business about “fuck capitalism” and so on is also infantile, just in the opposite direction.
    - HarryHirsch 4y ago
      That's an assertion of belief, not a statement of fact. You'd have to bring arguments why the interests of workers and owners are congruent (which they are not).

ok_coo 4y ago

While I agree with this perspective, these companies go out of their way to market to their employees to make the job their whole identity. They are not blameless.

atomicUpdate 4y ago
Burger King ends every commercial with “you rule!”. I don’t believe them and build my life around what they say either.
- anon7725 4y ago
  So you spend a good portion of your waking hours at Burger King and feed and clothe yourself from the money that you make there?

zug_zug 4y ago

This is true, but I think it's misplaced to bitterly place this on the individual. I have worked at multiple companies than have disingenously referred to themselves as "family," always talking about "supporting your growth here," etc. It's just outright dishonest and for whatever reason it's the industry standard. Can't blame people for taking it at face value for a few years. And honestly, one generation ago (and in certain fields like police), your work is a permanent group of supporters. It's not like such a thing is impossible.

bradleyjg 4y ago
Four years of high school and at least four years of college, both generally requiring courses in history and literature. Sometimes also psychology, philosophy, rhetoric, and/or logic. On paper these are extremely well educated people from top institutions that boast about producing well rounded individuals. What happened?

mc32 4y ago

Agreed. This is a naive point of view. The company and worker agree on some terms and if the terms stop working for either one, that's the end of the line. It sucks when that comes to be but we have to realize that we as workers in any capacity are only useful when our input aligns with the goals of the company. There is leeway, but that diminishes when time gets tough. Blue collar workers, union or no union, always understood this. It's white collar workers who feel blindsided because they believed the company propaganda. The propaganda is not itself a bad thing but workers need to understand the use of propaganda and why it's used. If you've ever worked with blue collar workers you know they never believe in any of the sunshine management talk and instead deride it with contempt. White collar workers would be well advised to learn from their blue collar brethren.

infamouscow 4y ago
As Mark Twain put it, it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
hef19898 4y ago
There are those white collar who realize that along the line, those that brace company propaganda and turn carrierist and those that stay naive to be abused by the second group. There is a reason I get along better with blue collar folks than, especially the more inexperienced, white collar ones. Usually, blue collar folks have less problems following "orders" as well. This professional discipline makes a lot of things a lot easier.

NegativeLatency 4y ago

It may have always been the case but it's often cleverly disguised intentionally by companies so they can exploit workers (especially in more white-collar environments and even more so in tech startups), so it's not exactly surprising that at least people would be caught unaware.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ROTMetro 4y ago

Grew up with parents working in startups/small tech companies in Santa Cruz from the late seventies through the 2000s. No, it has not always been the case. It's sad you are happy to accept it as both acceptable and the norm. Grownups realize they have the agency to choose the environment they place themselves in and choose to spend the majority of their day somewhere not adversarial.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

stumblindrunk 4y ago

> your executive leadership would run you over with their cars if you stood between them and revenue growth. This is ridiculous. I’m sure such sociopaths exist but there’s literally 30MM+ companies in the US. If only 1MM have an executive team this proposes there are millions of near murderers about. Pretty sure there’d be more murders. It’s stupidly hyperbolic and actually implicitly assumes that which it purports to reject. Namely, it conflates job loss with death, giving companies more agency over your life than they actually have; the phrasing ignores its own first statement, in pursuit of clickbait nonsense.

ricardobeat 4y ago

Deriding the need to belong and do meaningful work is quite cynical and… immature. Not everyone is in a situation where the only option is to harden their shell and submit to a corporation. Some will find a family or great friends at work. It might mean limiting your career choices, but it is not a character flaw.