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State Farm says 105 Kia, Hyundai models ‘ineligible’ for new insurance in LA
- destitude 4y agoPark in well lit area so people can easily see it is the vehicle they want to steal??
- kevinmrose 4y ago"Two State Farm employees told WWL-TV that the restrictions apply in Georgia, Louisiana, Oregon, Washington, and Pennsylvania. The restrictions do not apply to current policyholders, only to drivers who are looking for new policies." Looks like it's not just Louisiana. I wonder if they'll be extending this to other states, or if other insurers will be following suit? I haven't been following this issue, but I feel like Kia and Hyundai should be doing some sort of recall to fix the problem instead of allowing their customers to suffer, it can't be good for PR.
- lizzardbraind 4y agoThey are preparing a recall to install immobilizers on the affected models, but it sounds like they're moving too slowly. The insurance companies might also feel like they have media cover to do this, because how-to videos have become a social media trend. You can hotwire them more easily than a '90s car with ignition wires hanging under the dash, if you know what you're looking for. Kia in particular might suffer some serious brand damage from this, combined with their multiple recent engine fire recalls.
- krolden 4y agoThey won't do a recall unless forced by regulators. The sheer number of cars without immobilizers and the amount of money/work that would go in to installing them in cars that didn't originally have them would be quite crazy. I hate Korean cars but this really isn't on kia or Hyundai since the existing motor vehicle import laws in the usa do not require cars to have immobilizers installed. pretty much every other import and domestic car has been installing them by default for over 20 years.
- jerf 4y ago"They won't do a recall unless forced by regulators." Forced to by insurance companies, or forced to by bad press like this, can do the trick too. I don't know about these states but I live in a state where insurance is mandatory. I don't know if there are flip sides of the laws mandating insurers to insure, but if not, if the entire industry in my state followed suit for these cars, it would effectively take the cars off the roads. I can promise you the manufacturers would take note of such an outcome.
- brookst 4y agoTheft insurance is mandatory in your state?
- 83 4y agoJerf is in Michigan (Ann Arbor). Michigan does not require comprehensive afaict, only liability.
- jerf 4y agoI interpreted the article as saying that all insurance for these cars is terminated: "Starting Jan. 25, State Farm Insurance agents in Louisiana are no longer doing business with owners of 105 Kia and Hyundai models that have been blacklisted because they are vulnerable to theft, employees told WWL-TV." Scanning over it again, it still seems the correct interpretation of the text as written. But it is an easy mistake for a journalist to make, if you know that it's theft-only from some other article then I'd be wrong about my state comment. The idea that insurance can drive this would still stand though. An entire customer base being told they can't insure will get attention. It would need to be an industry-wide thing, though, or the customer base may just change companies.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- lordleft 4y agoI was (and still am) considering buying a Kia Forte, but only a 2023+ model with an immobilizer. There are rumors that Kia is planning to install immobilizers for free on impacted cars, but it's shocking that it's taken this long. I can't imagine how much reputational damage they'll sustain because of this.
- kube-system 4y ago> I can't imagine how much reputational damage they'll sustain because of this. I bet not much, if any. There are many more significant scandals in recent automotive history that everyone has already forgotten about. Not many people are running down to their Kia lot based on their impeccable reputation, they're going there because they sell contemporarily styled cars with a decent feature set, accessible financing, and they're priced a few hundred bucks less than everyone else.
- treis 4y agoAnd there's people like me who own one of said models and hearing about it for the first time.
- bryanlarsen 4y agoFrom my perspective it seems that everybody in the market for a car or small SUV has a deposit on a Hyundai or Kia EV.
- johnc1231 4y agoEven if you have the immobilizer on your new car, if a potential thief thinks your car is one of the stealable ones, you may still end up with a broken window.
- kube-system 4y agoAnd a destroyed steering column. They wouldn't know it has an immobilizer until the lock cylinder was torn out, and it still didn't start.
- riffic 4y agotitle refers to Louisiana (a little known state in the US), not Los Angeles or any other 'LA'.
- throwaway1777 4y agoConfused me too
- Pulcinella 4y agoI would not say it’s little known, but I did think the title originally referred to Las Angeles.
- miguelazo 4y agoNot exactly "little known", but the LA abbreviation is rarely used to refer to a place other than Los Angeles. Definitely a confusing choice. Will be interesting to see if this policy spreads to other states, and whether these OEMs will do the right thing and issue a recall.
- bena 4y agoWell, LA is the postal state code for Louisiana. Using LA for Los Angeles is just an initialism. The confusion stems from both entities having valid reasons for using the abbreviation. Typically, I will use LA for Los Angeles and La. for Louisiana if I must abbreviate throughout. However, when I can, I spell out the full name the first time, then abbreviate in subsequent mentions.
- brookst 4y ago4.6M people live in Louisiana, and 10m in Los Angeles. I’m cool giving the LA monicker to Los Angeles.
- kube-system 4y ago10m in Los Angeles County. 3.9m live in Los Angeles the city.
- bdcravens 4y agoMaybe this becomes a door into forcing EVs: insurance companies refusing to cover any car with a catalytic converter, due to theft.
- to11mtm 4y agoEhh, some cars are already working around this. In my newer vehicle, the Catalytic converter is actually in the engine bay. This has an emissions benefit in theory[0], since the cat will heat up faster. But as a side effect, GL trying to get it out. [1] [0] - I say 'in theory' because some folks have had issues with unburnt fuel getting into the Cat and -then- combusting, which is of course bad for the converter and shortens it's life. [1] - Probably also means replacing it legitimately is a stupid amount of labor though.
- kube-system 4y ago> [1] - Probably also means replacing it legitimately is a stupid amount of labor though. Depends on whether it's buried or not. Many transverse 4-cylinders mount them in the front of the engine and they're actually very easy to get to.
- to11mtm 4y agoIt's buried behind the engine. They'd be better off stealing the whole car and parting it out.
- supergeek133 4y agoWas there ever a class action started against the manufacturers of these vehicles for the never recalled/fixed "easy to steal" thing? I haven't been keeping up with the history.
- guardiangod 4y agoI had a Hyundai car for over 10 years. It's a good car but my impression of it is that Hyundai knows exactly where to cut cost and substitutes just-good-enough parts. The car had many features over its competitors, but under the hood it's easy to see that the engineering focused on cost (reduction) over longevity. Why should a part last 400k when 200k is sufficient? So I am not surprised to see a new car made in the 2010s can still be sold without a mobilizer.
- kube-system 4y agoYeah, literally nobody goes to a car lot, looks at the window sticker, and says "ooh immobilizer, we gotta get this one!" and Hyundai/Kia know it.
- adrianmonk 4y agoSome car buying guides do advise getting insurance quotes before you buy. Theoretically, the risk should be reflected, so it should incentivize immobilizers. But if few people actually do it, then it weakens the incentive a lot. Also, there are dozens of competing factors that weigh into a car-buying decision, so that dilutes the impact too.
- x0x0 4y agoI wonder if this qualifies for a return under the California lemon law. Uninsurability w/o a $250 part?
- kube-system 4y agoI highly doubt insurability is warranted. And definitely not insurability with one particular insurance company.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago>Why should a part last 400k when 200k is sufficient? Because the 400k car costs 10% more to make but white collar types who will inevitably trade them in after 3/36 will pay 30% more for them so they can brag to their coworkers about how responsible they are by buying a reliable new car. There's two and a half brands that run on this model.
- deburo 4y agoI had this feeling in my mind that car security was not very good, similar to home security (most homes being protected only by door locks), but I guess not! Reducing up to 40% theft, according to Wikipedia (sourcing a 2016 article). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immobiliser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immobiliser
- bluedino 4y agoThey aren't on the NICB list of the top ten most stolen: 1. Chevrolet Pick-Up (Full Size) 48,206 2. Ford Pick-Up (Full Size) 47,999 3. Honda Civic 31,673 4. Honda Accord 30,274 5. Toyota Camry 17,270 6. GMC Pick-Up (Full Size) 15,599 7. Nissan Altima 14,108 8. Honda CR-V 13,308 9. Jeep Cherokee/Grand Cherokee 13,210 10. Toyota Corolla 12,927 (understandably, that is basically the list of the best-selling vehicles) However, there's only 1 Kia on the IIHS "most likely to be stolen" list: 1. Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat 2. Dodge Charger HEMI 3. Infiniti Q50 4. Dodge Challenger 5. Land Rover Range Rover four-wheel drive 6. Land Rover Range Rover Sport 4WD 7. Nissan Maxima 8. Kia Rio 9. Dodge Charger 10. Honda Accord So, why are they still insuring Dodge Chargers?
- kube-system 4y agoBecause stealing someone's keys is the #1 way that vehicles are stolen, and it is a vulnerability that affects nearly all models equally.
- GavinMcG 4y ago... you're ignoring the underlying availability. The total number of Hyundais sold in the US is comparable to combined sales of Honda Civics and Toyota Camrys alone. The question is whether the risk of a Hyundai/Kia being stolen is disproportionately high, since that's what affects its impact on an insurer.
- bluedino 4y agoExactly the point of my second list.
- GavinMcG 4y agoAh, okay. Then to answer your question: because those cars' rapid rise into the top 20 on that list means that there's an uncertain risk calculation (and one that old rates do not reflect) and so the insurer isn't willing to bet that the rise won't continue.
- 4y ago
- barbazoo 4y agoDo they not distinguish between liability coverage and comprehensive insurance for theft, fire, etc? Seems weird not to provide liability coverage for these cars, am I missing anything?
- kotaKat 4y agoThe liability of some kid stealing your insured property and crashing it "for the lulz".
- brookst 4y agoThe law in most (all?) states that owners are generally not liable for damage or injury from a stolen car. https://www.mwl-law.com/owner-liability-for-damage-caused-by-stolen-vehicles/ https://www.mwl-law.com/owner-liability-for-damage-caused-by...
- barbazoo 4y agoI saw that too but it doesn't say anything about whether the insurer is still liable. > The majority common law rule among the 50 states is that the owner of a stolen vehicle will not be held liable for damages when the vehicle is stolen and then involved in an accident that causes injury or property damage.
- brookst 4y agoInsurance is a contract between owner and insurer. The insurer is never directly liable.
- barbazoo 4y agoIf they can't go after the insurer then why would they not insure those cars then instead of just denying the comprehensive coverage due to the missing anti theft device.
- hnburnsy 4y ago
- avgDev 4y agoIMO, this should be illegal for State Farm to do. Insurance is required in the US. Hyundai has built cars they can legally sell in the US. I feel like the government has dropped the ball on this one, immobilizers should be required in all vehicles. What if other insurers follow this move, and owners cannot insure their cars? This actually shows how silly a law requiring insurance with only private options is.
- eschneider 4y agoIn most places LIABILITY insurance is required, not theft/comprehensive. I expect you'll still be able to find liability insurance for those models even if nobody wants to insure them for theft.
- Broken_Hippo 4y agoIf I remember correctly, a lot of loan companies require more coverage than that, though. If you can't insure them, you probably won't get a loan.
- to11mtm 4y agoWhich -does- raise questions about a diminished value claim by the owners, since the resale value will reflect that.
- avgDev 4y agoThat is a good point. However, lenders do require comprehensive, I wonder how they would feel about this if there is an existing loan on a vehicle and it becomes uninsurable.
- tomxor 4y agoI believe theft still falls under liability AKA "3rd party" _if_ it causes damage to others. "Theft" as an insurance type compensates the owner which is optional.
- kube-system 4y ago
- mensetmanusman 4y agoThey should just require the owners to use the club or something similar.
- Insthrowaway 4y agoI work at a large insurer (not State Farm). The frequency of theft on Hyundai/Kias is actually insane. In metro areas where it's happening, it's 10x the theft rate of other makes in the area. We're talking a 5-10% chance of Hyundais being stolen per year. Looking at the data by metro area is interesting, I wish I could share it. Hyundai/Kia thefts are low heading into 2020 or so, and then they absolutely skyrocket over the course of a few months. It doesn't hit every city at once - Milwaukee was hit first for example - but it's quickly spreading to every metro like a contagion.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoWhy are people stealing these specifically?
- BigRedDog1669 4y agoHyundai and Kia cheaped out by not including a couple dollar part that makes it harder to hotwire. Apparently kids can hotwire them with a USB cable because they don't have the immobilizer. It affects several years worth of Kia and Hyundai models.
- alephnerd 4y agoA lot of TikTok posters made videos showing how to break into Hyundais and Kias as they lack immobilizers, so anyone looking for a car to joyride in or use as a getaway car during a robbery or a driveby could just steal one instead. You find a lot of abandoned Kias and Hyundais down in Hunter's Point in SF for that reason.
- kube-system 4y agoJoy riding it appears, here's a compilation of some examples (nsfw language): https://youtu.be/cZss8DIUPhg?t=10 https://youtu.be/cZss8DIUPhg?t=10
- grapescheesee 4y agoCan we please start clarifying makes and models? I understand this might empower people, but it's not every car they made or make.. I know my year and model isn't part of these insurance issues, but all I see is brand names.
- themadturk 4y agoI was standing in line at a rental agency a few weeks ago after my Prius had its catalytic converter stolen (second time in two years!). The people ahead of me had their 2002 Kia stolen after having owned it for a week. Someone took it, got takeout from McDonald's (and left the trash in the car), then abandoned it.