5 ms·

Couldn't you say that conformity necessity is the result of the "social predators", though? Your employer shouldn't need to care that you choose to shout crackp

Couldn't you say that conformity necessity is the result of the "social predators", though? Your employer shouldn't need to care that you choose to shout crackpot theories from the rooftops. They do, but only because they don't want to catch the scrutiny by association. Further, retirees should be freed from that conformity need, yet still seem every bit as boring – if not more so.

jakeinspace 4y ago
60+ years of conformity shapes your brain permanently for most people.
sdenton4 4y ago
No. I don't understand why this social predators thing is even a hypothesis; it seems totally unfounded to me. This essay starts from a what-if and then bounds forward with great leaps of logic...
- randomdata 4y ago
  Suggesting that people are inherently boring and don't conform out of social pressure but rather the random chance of evolution?
  - bilbo0s 4y ago
    Wow. This one got me thinking too. What if "boring" social groupings have proven more stable over time than "lively and outraged" social groupings? Would evolutionary pressures start shaping our social structures over the millennia? I mean, I think probably they would right?
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  I think social predators are very real today. That is very much what "cancel culture" is. Its people acting as bandits to those who have violated the "SACRED" whatever and they shout from the mountain tops to bring down whoever has transgressed. They even intentionally ping your employer to bring you down, attacking the very reason so many of us must lead boring lives.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
    Cancel culture only really pings on right wing culture issues. There’s plenty of exciting and quirky things people can do that aren’t that, like being really into taxidermy, or having a huge predatory insect collection. Or being into a scene like goth or raves. I would even consider, idk, having a huge passion in a specific country’s literature to be quirky, like imagine someone who is hugely in love with Congolese literature.
    - wonderwonder 4y ago
      sure, but just because it focuses on a single culture issue does not mean the bandits are not real, they have just not focused on your area yet. Does the fact its focused only on right wing cultural issues make it ok? Does that make the people attacking them and attempting to get them fired any less of a "bandit" to use the articles term? There have been several articles on parents being arrested for allowing their kids to "free range". Right wing focuses on drag shows. Its all over the place. Bandits are everywhere.
      - bilbo0s 4y ago
        I think where you're going off the rails is with the idea of "social predators" at all. I mean, there are no bandits. A right wing racist is just a part of society, with the freedom and the right to express his/her opinion and associate with those whom s/he pleases. Where is the "banditry" in that? The person opposed to the right wing racist is just a part of society, with the freedom and the right to express his/her opinion and associate with those whom s/he pleases. Where is the "banditry" in that? Maybe it would be helpful if you could outline why you believe those exercising, say, Constitutional freedoms in the US, are "bandits" or "social predators", as opposed to being just regular members of society acting in the fashion their Constitution intended?
        ben_w 4y ago
        I think you're taking the term "bandit" too literally; I'm reading it as a metaphor, just like the use of the word "piracy" for "copyright infringement" — even though there are going to be some people who will look for the loud and open, and decide to literally rob them, I see the issues discussed in the post as being nothing to do with that dollar-money kind of thing, and all to with the loss of social capital. And now I write that, I realise that what is here called "bandit" used to be called "troll" back in the late 90s. And before the internet, "antisocial youths loitering in malls". Also, https://xkcd.com/677 https://xkcd.com/677 comes to mind.
- bilbo0s 4y ago
  Hmm. Probably true. The more I think on it, the more I see a society as a society. There is no such thing as a social predator. Everyone is part of a society. If women choose to boycott a company's products because they are upset at that company's lax attitude towards women's safety or whatever, that doesn't make half of society social predators. Women are a part of society, they're entitled to opinions, as well as the agency to engage in freedom of lawful action. The company doesn't seem a predator to me either, as all they are doing is taking lawful action to protect their revenue. There really are no social predators here, unless I've misunderstood the term.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    Isn't that saying the same thing using different words? It is not like the "social predator" is some kind of distinct monster that only has to be slain and then all is right with the world. It is fundamentally just people being people and the observation therefore. Even if in some hypothetical way the "social predator" was something that was to be attacked, that would merely make the attacker a "social predator" too, rendering the whole notion an impossibility.
    - watwut 4y ago
      The difference is in judgement in words. When you say "social predator", the implication is that the person is doing something wrong and are bad in some way.
SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
Retirees tend to be pretty boring because they can’t actually risk too much right now. Their income is limited, their health is limited. Very likely they are on medication they need regularly and so can’t afford wild trips.
- ben_w 4y ago
  On the other hand, old people are also famous for speaking their minds about things the modern world considered taboo — the trope of "racist granpa at Thanksgiving" was something I was aware of decades ago despite not being American and therefore not doing Thanksgiving (and not just because my British grandmother matched a similar pattern by using the word "Irish" as a synonym for "stupid" at a family dinner).
  - watwut 4y ago
    It is racist uncle tho - someone assumed to be in their 50ties max. And they are not risking anything, because they are saying stuff rest of family does not mind hearing much. If you oppose then, you will be blamed for starting a conflict. Which is why that trope exists, people are trying to figure out what to do in situation they are expected to shut up while they feel bad about own complacency.
- randomdata 4y ago
  What's really at risk beyond succumbing to the "social predator"? Say "strait laced" grandpa throws on grandma's frilly dress for the first time and goes for a stroll down the street. It doesn't cost anything and, for the sake of discussion, isn't anything he wouldn't otherwise do in his own clothing. The only risk is that his social contacts start to cut him out of their life for his actions (i.e. social predators).
moffkalast 4y ago
Yeah it's not so much social predators as ostracism by normal people. With loneliness on the sharp rise and people having fewer and fewer social groups it won't have as much of an affect in the future though.
- loa_in_ 4y ago
  The group named "normal people" is a fantasy

jakeinspace 4y ago

60+ years of conformity shapes your brain permanently for most people.

sdenton4 4y ago

No. I don't understand why this social predators thing is even a hypothesis; it seems totally unfounded to me. This essay starts from a what-if and then bounds forward with great leaps of logic...

randomdata 4y ago
Suggesting that people are inherently boring and don't conform out of social pressure but rather the random chance of evolution?
- bilbo0s 4y ago
  Wow. This one got me thinking too. What if "boring" social groupings have proven more stable over time than "lively and outraged" social groupings? Would evolutionary pressures start shaping our social structures over the millennia? I mean, I think probably they would right?
wonderwonder 4y ago
I think social predators are very real today. That is very much what "cancel culture" is. Its people acting as bandits to those who have violated the "SACRED" whatever and they shout from the mountain tops to bring down whoever has transgressed. They even intentionally ping your employer to bring you down, attacking the very reason so many of us must lead boring lives.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  Cancel culture only really pings on right wing culture issues. There’s plenty of exciting and quirky things people can do that aren’t that, like being really into taxidermy, or having a huge predatory insect collection. Or being into a scene like goth or raves. I would even consider, idk, having a huge passion in a specific country’s literature to be quirky, like imagine someone who is hugely in love with Congolese literature.
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    sure, but just because it focuses on a single culture issue does not mean the bandits are not real, they have just not focused on your area yet. Does the fact its focused only on right wing cultural issues make it ok? Does that make the people attacking them and attempting to get them fired any less of a "bandit" to use the articles term? There have been several articles on parents being arrested for allowing their kids to "free range". Right wing focuses on drag shows. Its all over the place. Bandits are everywhere.
    - bilbo0s 4y ago
      I think where you're going off the rails is with the idea of "social predators" at all. I mean, there are no bandits. A right wing racist is just a part of society, with the freedom and the right to express his/her opinion and associate with those whom s/he pleases. Where is the "banditry" in that? The person opposed to the right wing racist is just a part of society, with the freedom and the right to express his/her opinion and associate with those whom s/he pleases. Where is the "banditry" in that? Maybe it would be helpful if you could outline why you believe those exercising, say, Constitutional freedoms in the US, are "bandits" or "social predators", as opposed to being just regular members of society acting in the fashion their Constitution intended?
      - ben_w 4y ago
        I think you're taking the term "bandit" too literally; I'm reading it as a metaphor, just like the use of the word "piracy" for "copyright infringement" — even though there are going to be some people who will look for the loud and open, and decide to literally rob them, I see the issues discussed in the post as being nothing to do with that dollar-money kind of thing, and all to with the loss of social capital. And now I write that, I realise that what is here called "bandit" used to be called "troll" back in the late 90s. And before the internet, "antisocial youths loitering in malls". Also, https://xkcd.com/677 https://xkcd.com/677 comes to mind.
bilbo0s 4y ago
Hmm. Probably true. The more I think on it, the more I see a society as a society. There is no such thing as a social predator. Everyone is part of a society. If women choose to boycott a company's products because they are upset at that company's lax attitude towards women's safety or whatever, that doesn't make half of society social predators. Women are a part of society, they're entitled to opinions, as well as the agency to engage in freedom of lawful action. The company doesn't seem a predator to me either, as all they are doing is taking lawful action to protect their revenue. There really are no social predators here, unless I've misunderstood the term.
- randomdata 4y ago
  Isn't that saying the same thing using different words? It is not like the "social predator" is some kind of distinct monster that only has to be slain and then all is right with the world. It is fundamentally just people being people and the observation therefore. Even if in some hypothetical way the "social predator" was something that was to be attacked, that would merely make the attacker a "social predator" too, rendering the whole notion an impossibility.
  - watwut 4y ago
    The difference is in judgement in words. When you say "social predator", the implication is that the person is doing something wrong and are bad in some way.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago

Retirees tend to be pretty boring because they can’t actually risk too much right now. Their income is limited, their health is limited. Very likely they are on medication they need regularly and so can’t afford wild trips.

ben_w 4y ago
On the other hand, old people are also famous for speaking their minds about things the modern world considered taboo — the trope of "racist granpa at Thanksgiving" was something I was aware of decades ago despite not being American and therefore not doing Thanksgiving (and not just because my British grandmother matched a similar pattern by using the word "Irish" as a synonym for "stupid" at a family dinner).
- watwut 4y ago
  It is racist uncle tho - someone assumed to be in their 50ties max. And they are not risking anything, because they are saying stuff rest of family does not mind hearing much. If you oppose then, you will be blamed for starting a conflict. Which is why that trope exists, people are trying to figure out what to do in situation they are expected to shut up while they feel bad about own complacency.
randomdata 4y ago
What's really at risk beyond succumbing to the "social predator"? Say "strait laced" grandpa throws on grandma's frilly dress for the first time and goes for a stroll down the street. It doesn't cost anything and, for the sake of discussion, isn't anything he wouldn't otherwise do in his own clothing. The only risk is that his social contacts start to cut him out of their life for his actions (i.e. social predators).

moffkalast 4y ago

Yeah it's not so much social predators as ostracism by normal people. With loneliness on the sharp rise and people having fewer and fewer social groups it won't have as much of an affect in the future though.

loa_in_ 4y ago
The group named "normal people" is a fantasy