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Agreed that Job, Mortgage, Kids are a powerful normalizer in many places in the world. (note, my 2 cents: It's not strictly "Adulthood". My wife and I settled

Agreed that Job, Mortgage, Kids are a powerful normalizer in many places in the world. (note, my 2 cents: It's not strictly "Adulthood". My wife and I settled "late" in our lives, so we both had very different lifestyle/priorities/hobbies in our 20s and 30s - I did rock climbing, rally racing, flying lessons, professional and art photography, Karate, skiing, guitar, video games, rollerblading and kangoo boots and dragon boating and myriad other activities plus constant little experiments and fun things - vs now in our 40's that we have two young kids, full time management jobs, mortgage and expenses. This is not to say we don't, theoretically, have power to still change some of our lifestyle; but the constraints on time, energy and money are legitimately one to two orders of magnitude different) That being said, I think the blog has an interesting perspective about social normalization overall. Whatever one's inherent personal level of "interesting and exciting and weird" may be, there may be significant social pressure of various kinds to minimize it externally. And FWIW, I think it works to different magnitudes in different places and times: in my old country, especially a few decades ago, adults did NOT try new things, and did NOT do exciting things. I love Canada because I can try all these crazy new things and hobbies and activities and suck at them, and average Canadian will still say "Good on YOU! Have fun!:)". Whereas in my old country people would gossip "Who is he trying to BE? He's a [Doctor|Teacher|Programmer|Manager|Whatever] for god's sake, he shouldn't be doing things like that!". You would be judged very harshly with tremendous peer-group pressure to stay in pre-defined zones of your station and lot. Heck, my mom, against all social norms learned to ride a bike when she was 38 in the old country and she was oh my god chastised and judged for that, which feels ridiculous from Canadian perspective.

altdataseller 4y ago
What were some of those little experiments you did?
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> we both had very different lifestyle/priorities/hobbies in our 20s and 30s - I did rock climbing, rally racing, flying lessons, professional and art photography, Karate, skiing, guitar, video games, rollerblading and kangoo boots and dragon boating and myriad other activities plus constant little experiments and fun things What you describe isn’t common for people who haven’t “settled” or who don’t have 40 hour per week jobs. That extreme level of hobbies and activity, some of which aren’t cheap, would be an outlier for people in your position. > This is not to say we don't, theoretically, have power to still change some of our lifestyle; but the constraints on time, energy and money are one or two orders of magnitude different. As a counter example, I watched a number of my friends slide into complacency in their lates 20s and early 30s despite having very easy jobs. I can think of several people who worked remote or for family businesses and did little more than a couple of hours of “work” per day from their phones, yet that didn’t automatically translate into a diverse and outgoing lifestyle. It seems to translate more often to a complacency and inactivity. Having kids was the catalyst for forcing these people to be active again. They now go out and do things, whether it’s going outside to go to the park or going on a mini-adventure somewhere because their kids are bored The idea that “kids make you boring” hasn’t been true in the people I know. It’s true that kids change what you can do with your time, but it’s anything but boring. Getting out of the house and doing social activities with other kids/parents really opens a whole new world of activity and engagement, even if it doesn’t mean dragon boat racing every weekend.
_yb2s 4y ago
If I'm reading this correctly, you mostly gave up those hobbies once you had kids. I want to encourage you to do them anyways, and find a way to include them. I'm a single dad, and bring my toddler son on tons of outdoor adventures, and it is really good for both of our mental health, and reduces our stress a lot.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  I do several hobbies that require a significant time investment. I heard a lot of “you’ll have to give that up when you have kids” when I was younger. Then I actually had kids. It’s true that I can’t go do these hobbies every single weekend or wait until the last second to plan a spontaneous outing without preparing. However, it’s not true that they simply stop and become impossible. It takes a different approach to planning and prep, but it can be done. It’s also interesting to learn how many of the other hobbyists also have kids. Before kids I just assumed everyone else was childless like myself, but it turns out a lot of people who do these hobbies also have kids at home once you talk to them.
- watwut 4y ago
  Being outdoor with toddler is incomparable with being on adult hike or skiing or climbing. It just gets frustrating cause you see what you could do before and can't now.
  - okr 4y ago
    You went skiing with a toddler?
    - watwut 4y ago
      First, my post does not imply that. Second, yes I have seen people doing that. They can be taught apparently.
      - okr 4y ago
        It is a pity. I liked the image of it.
red-iron-pine 4y ago
> That being said, I think the blog has an interesting perspective about social normalization overall. Whatever one's inherent personal level of "interesting and exciting and weird" may be, there may be significant social pressure of various kinds to minimize it externally. Signal theory: I can't place a lot of eclectic or odd behavior or appearances. As in, I can place a lot of stuff like the business casual soccer parent demographic, or the hoodrat gangster demo, or the painfully hipster but-not-pulling-it-off demo, etc. I know before I talk to you, roughly, where you line up. Always exceptions, of course, but it's a reasonable shorthand. Dave is a sports guy who likes whiskey. That may not be true, and he may have deep, deeeeeep interests in esoteric Christianity, fractal math, and trainhopping, but most of that will never come up at work (or outside of it), and even if it did I don't have the cognitive space to care about except for people in my inner circle. And that works both ways -- I have to hope that if I put on an outfit or present a certain lifestyle it will sell well on the street, at a store, at the office, etc. Both that the other person(s) understands what I'm giving off, and that they will respond to it with positive regard. Even if I'm an odd, eclectic dude -- and I am; most folks wouldn't believe my stories -- I have nothing to gain by broadcasting that fact, and it may interfere or cause misinterpretations of other honest signaling.

altdataseller 4y ago

What were some of those little experiments you did?

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> we both had very different lifestyle/priorities/hobbies in our 20s and 30s - I did rock climbing, rally racing, flying lessons, professional and art photography, Karate, skiing, guitar, video games, rollerblading and kangoo boots and dragon boating and myriad other activities plus constant little experiments and fun things What you describe isn’t common for people who haven’t “settled” or who don’t have 40 hour per week jobs. That extreme level of hobbies and activity, some of which aren’t cheap, would be an outlier for people in your position. > This is not to say we don't, theoretically, have power to still change some of our lifestyle; but the constraints on time, energy and money are one or two orders of magnitude different. As a counter example, I watched a number of my friends slide into complacency in their lates 20s and early 30s despite having very easy jobs. I can think of several people who worked remote or for family businesses and did little more than a couple of hours of “work” per day from their phones, yet that didn’t automatically translate into a diverse and outgoing lifestyle. It seems to translate more often to a complacency and inactivity. Having kids was the catalyst for forcing these people to be active again. They now go out and do things, whether it’s going outside to go to the park or going on a mini-adventure somewhere because their kids are bored The idea that “kids make you boring” hasn’t been true in the people I know. It’s true that kids change what you can do with your time, but it’s anything but boring. Getting out of the house and doing social activities with other kids/parents really opens a whole new world of activity and engagement, even if it doesn’t mean dragon boat racing every weekend.

_yb2s 4y ago

If I'm reading this correctly, you mostly gave up those hobbies once you had kids. I want to encourage you to do them anyways, and find a way to include them. I'm a single dad, and bring my toddler son on tons of outdoor adventures, and it is really good for both of our mental health, and reduces our stress a lot.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago
I do several hobbies that require a significant time investment. I heard a lot of “you’ll have to give that up when you have kids” when I was younger. Then I actually had kids. It’s true that I can’t go do these hobbies every single weekend or wait until the last second to plan a spontaneous outing without preparing. However, it’s not true that they simply stop and become impossible. It takes a different approach to planning and prep, but it can be done. It’s also interesting to learn how many of the other hobbyists also have kids. Before kids I just assumed everyone else was childless like myself, but it turns out a lot of people who do these hobbies also have kids at home once you talk to them.
watwut 4y ago
Being outdoor with toddler is incomparable with being on adult hike or skiing or climbing. It just gets frustrating cause you see what you could do before and can't now.
- okr 4y ago
  You went skiing with a toddler?
  - watwut 4y ago
    First, my post does not imply that. Second, yes I have seen people doing that. They can be taught apparently.
    - okr 4y ago
      It is a pity. I liked the image of it.

red-iron-pine 4y ago

> That being said, I think the blog has an interesting perspective about social normalization overall. Whatever one's inherent personal level of "interesting and exciting and weird" may be, there may be significant social pressure of various kinds to minimize it externally. Signal theory: I can't place a lot of eclectic or odd behavior or appearances. As in, I can place a lot of stuff like the business casual soccer parent demographic, or the hoodrat gangster demo, or the painfully hipster but-not-pulling-it-off demo, etc. I know before I talk to you, roughly, where you line up. Always exceptions, of course, but it's a reasonable shorthand. Dave is a sports guy who likes whiskey. That may not be true, and he may have deep, deeeeeep interests in esoteric Christianity, fractal math, and trainhopping, but most of that will never come up at work (or outside of it), and even if it did I don't have the cognitive space to care about except for people in my inner circle. And that works both ways -- I have to hope that if I put on an outfit or present a certain lifestyle it will sell well on the street, at a store, at the office, etc. Both that the other person(s) understands what I'm giving off, and that they will respond to it with positive regard. Even if I'm an odd, eclectic dude -- and I am; most folks wouldn't believe my stories -- I have nothing to gain by broadcasting that fact, and it may interfere or cause misinterpretations of other honest signaling.