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This is why it is simpler to set time limits and let the kids do what they want. It’s too much management and friction and negotiation otherwise. For now, I’ve

This is why it is simpler to set time limits and let the kids do what they want. It’s too much management and friction and negotiation otherwise. For now, I’ve done so anyway: games (even dumb ones) are fine but video is only available under special circumstances (e.g. on an airplane). I’m sure even this very coarse line will eventually erode though.

Loughla 4y ago
We had the same rule, and modified it to include type of games. Phone games have time limits, unless it's things like Dragonbox, flow free, or other "educational" games (at least games that require some kind of thinking) approved by us beforehand, including minecraft. Because 99.999% of games for children are just absolute trash stuffed full of ads. Any PC game that is age appropriate gets a pass, but only if it's evening and we're inside already, or if it's really shitty outside. As a non-tech person, the one thing I haven't been able to figure out is how to encourage 'tinkering' in an active way. So much technology today is meant to be set and forget. I had my oldest build a linux pc last year, and that seemed to pique his interest, but it was short lived, because so much is just apps and consumption with no backend. Even age appropriate apps for programming and learning about that sort of thing are very boxed in.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  > As a non-tech person, the one thing I haven't been able to figure out is how to encourage 'tinkering' in an active way. Let me know if you ever figure out - I feel I'll be facing the same problem in the next few years. From my tech person perspective, I agree with your summary: advances in computer tech and consumer product design have done away with tinkering: where it isn't actively discouraged, it's still hard and doesn't seem that fun anymore. Yes, people will bring up BBC Micro and those 8-bit handheld boards and Arduinos - but the truth is, even if they replicate the experience of 20-30 years ago somewhat, a big part of the motivation (to me) was knowing you're doing something unique, that you can't just trivially buy a ready-made product that does the same thing but much better. I feel you can't get people to "tinker" in general - this happens when they have a goal and tinkering is the best way to achieve it. For me as a kid, this was building model rockets and writing video games - it's what got me to do electronics and programming. Without such goals, I wouldn't sustain my interest in learning and playing with these things.
  - v-erne 4y ago
    And why should tinkering be easy ? The whole point of it is understanding things beyond the initial use and this is the mindset that, I believe, only handful of people have (like one in ten). I distinctly remember that when I was tinkering in high school with things most of my peers were tinkering with people (a.k.a living life). So maybe, just maybe, it does not really matter if tinkering is easy or not - because its mostly character that decides if You will be into it or not (I subscribe more to nature then nurture side). And I honestly question if my children should waste their life on things instead of people.
- digitallyfree 4y ago
  I'm not a kid now :) but I tinkered a lot with tech as a kid and still do today as an adult. Most of that came from the fact that I didn't have a lot of the stuff others had - no cable TV, outdated computer, etc. Thus the tinkering came out of necessity and over time I started to like it. That stuff broke constantly and I remember searching for troubleshooting info on school computers to bring home and try. I did have the Internet though, and soon began exploring Linux, finding ways to make the computer faster, learning to repair secondhand equipment, and so forth. Not having easily accessible entertainment also had the bonus of getting me into other hobbies like writing, drawing, and music which I still do today. The more you do these things, the more you like them - and the satisfaction of making or fixing something is always greater than mindless consumption. And before you ask - yes, my social life suffered a bit as I couldn't play the games others played, talk about the shows they watched, etc. I knew many other kids who were "good" with tech, but they didn't really have the motivation to tinker as they could easily buy stuff that just worked.

Loughla 4y ago

We had the same rule, and modified it to include type of games. Phone games have time limits, unless it's things like Dragonbox, flow free, or other "educational" games (at least games that require some kind of thinking) approved by us beforehand, including minecraft. Because 99.999% of games for children are just absolute trash stuffed full of ads. Any PC game that is age appropriate gets a pass, but only if it's evening and we're inside already, or if it's really shitty outside. As a non-tech person, the one thing I haven't been able to figure out is how to encourage 'tinkering' in an active way. So much technology today is meant to be set and forget. I had my oldest build a linux pc last year, and that seemed to pique his interest, but it was short lived, because so much is just apps and consumption with no backend. Even age appropriate apps for programming and learning about that sort of thing are very boxed in.

TeMPOraL 4y ago
> As a non-tech person, the one thing I haven't been able to figure out is how to encourage 'tinkering' in an active way. Let me know if you ever figure out - I feel I'll be facing the same problem in the next few years. From my tech person perspective, I agree with your summary: advances in computer tech and consumer product design have done away with tinkering: where it isn't actively discouraged, it's still hard and doesn't seem that fun anymore. Yes, people will bring up BBC Micro and those 8-bit handheld boards and Arduinos - but the truth is, even if they replicate the experience of 20-30 years ago somewhat, a big part of the motivation (to me) was knowing you're doing something unique, that you can't just trivially buy a ready-made product that does the same thing but much better. I feel you can't get people to "tinker" in general - this happens when they have a goal and tinkering is the best way to achieve it. For me as a kid, this was building model rockets and writing video games - it's what got me to do electronics and programming. Without such goals, I wouldn't sustain my interest in learning and playing with these things.
- v-erne 4y ago
  And why should tinkering be easy ? The whole point of it is understanding things beyond the initial use and this is the mindset that, I believe, only handful of people have (like one in ten). I distinctly remember that when I was tinkering in high school with things most of my peers were tinkering with people (a.k.a living life). So maybe, just maybe, it does not really matter if tinkering is easy or not - because its mostly character that decides if You will be into it or not (I subscribe more to nature then nurture side). And I honestly question if my children should waste their life on things instead of people.
digitallyfree 4y ago
I'm not a kid now :) but I tinkered a lot with tech as a kid and still do today as an adult. Most of that came from the fact that I didn't have a lot of the stuff others had - no cable TV, outdated computer, etc. Thus the tinkering came out of necessity and over time I started to like it. That stuff broke constantly and I remember searching for troubleshooting info on school computers to bring home and try. I did have the Internet though, and soon began exploring Linux, finding ways to make the computer faster, learning to repair secondhand equipment, and so forth. Not having easily accessible entertainment also had the bonus of getting me into other hobbies like writing, drawing, and music which I still do today. The more you do these things, the more you like them - and the satisfaction of making or fixing something is always greater than mindless consumption. And before you ask - yes, my social life suffered a bit as I couldn't play the games others played, talk about the shows they watched, etc. I knew many other kids who were "good" with tech, but they didn't really have the motivation to tinker as they could easily buy stuff that just worked.