7 ms·

Hands on preview of Windows 7: Hey, it looks surprisingly good

30 points by technologizer 18y ago

tdoggette 18y ago
Remember when Longhorn had a whole new kernel, and WinFS, and was going to breathe new life into Windows?
- gecko 18y ago
  In this case, nearly all of the changes are architecturally minor, and though this looks like a very nice Windows release, it largely looks that way precisely because it is not a radical reënvisioning of Windows à la Vista. What we have here is Vista 2.0, with the sucky parts removed, the good parts (yes, there were good parts) kept, and some new, surprisingly well-thought-out, but relatively small enhancements to replace some of the poor features. I am actually pretty confident Microsoft can deliver this one. If they're smart, they'll have a similar incremental improvement scheduled as Windows 8, and get on an OS X/Linux-style rapid release schedule.
- socratees 18y ago
  Windows 7 is the new vista. :)
axod 18y ago
Meh. It's an operating system... How exciting can an o/s get these days.
- bprater 18y ago
  You fail at hacker, friend. OS wars are just getting warmed up.
  - axod 18y ago
    In what way? What innovation is going on in the O/S world? What has changed radically over the last 5 years? I used to care about the O/S, when you had little choice, when redhat was this small little sapling with a ton of things to do to get to windows. When macs were this weird other world that wasn't so unixy. When windows 95 came out and suddenly this whole new world opened up. In those days, the O/S was the platform. Now, it's probably more important what browser you use than what O/S you use for most people. But we're past all that now, an O/S is an O/S - there are a ton to choose from, they all do pretty much the same thing, and work the same(ish). Now, the main aim for an O/S is to stay the heck out of the way IMHO.
    - snprbob86 18y ago
      There is A LOT of innovation going on in the O/S. Depressingly, not a lot of that truly revolutionary work is going on in the commercial/productized OS world. Sun is doing great stuff with ZFS. Microsoft Research's Singularity is absolutely brilliant. Apple and Google are pushing mobile operating systems further than ever. I'm sure others could cite many more examples.
lux 18y ago
This does highlight a few more changes than the Ars Technica article, but it still looks very unimpressive. A slidebar setting for how often you to be notified about changes you made to your OS? Really? Is that a "can't live without" feature? Or even a mildly useful one? Most of these are rip-offs of toolbar previews from Ubuntu, and Expose, smart folders, and file previews from OS X. These aren't original ideas. Ooh, I like this part "Gadgets now sit directly on the desktop…which they could do even in Vista if you preferred." Wow, so they changed a setting's default value. I'm sold.
- bprater 18y ago
  Bah, humbug. I read through the changes and thought they were a breath of fresh air for the dinosaur OS. Doesn't all good art borrow from a previous generation and add it's own spin? We've learned that it isn't sweeping changes that make a gadget great, it's the subtle reconfiguration and simplification that does. If Windows 7 can help give my parents a better experience on their computers, I'm all for it.
  - lux 18y ago
    Subtle reconfiguration isn't always enough though. I'd love to see the Windows Control Panel cleaned up, for example. That would take a bigger overhaul to do properly. On the flip side, where I agree with you, are subtle things that could be improved like removing all the nag screens they added to Vista. Unfortunately, many of the subtle changes in Vista were steps in the wrong direction, like moving the buttons around in IE7. What did that help? It just confuses users. At least some things, like adding extra protection against phishing, were a good thing.
    - litewulf 18y ago
      You know it was redesigned in Vista. The default work image has it set to classic (I assume because some options are difficult/impossible? to find in the "new" view). I actually prefer it. Some items are 2 clicks instead of 1, but it beats scanning/scrolling. (Then again, I like the UAC, and it doesn't bother me that much. I keep it on, and I basically only see it when installing programs or configuration changes, which I have to sudo in ubuntu anyway...)
greyhat 18y ago
I don't understand this guy's rage against the tray. Almost every desktop system, be it OS X, KDE, Gnome, or XP has something similar. What would he prefer? A taskbar entry for wireless networks? No information at all? He also comments that we are "finally" given options to control tray icons... he must not be too observant then, because starting in XP you could choose to always hide or always show icons, or leave them alone. (e.g. to tell your Antivirus to always hide until you expand, but make sure that your instant messaging app stays in view.) Maybe its just me, but these new OS reviews and previews are always the most ignorant, half baked and opinionated pieces of tech journalism...
- SwellJoe 18y ago
  The tray is nowhere near configurable enough, and in many cases it relies on the app being polite enough to stay the hell out when you tell it to (many apps are not, in my experience). Notifications from the tray are the real bitch. When watching movies on the HTPC I built with Vista, it frequently interrupts the movie to tell me vitally important information like, "I'm going to check for new Logitech upgrades now!" "No upgrades available." Java does it, too. Infuriating. Maybe there is a way to disable this crap, but I've been unable to figure it out. (But I can't work iTunes, either, so I could just be stupid.)
- dcurtis 18y ago
  Unlike KDE, Gnome, OS X, etc, Windows' taskbar never shuts up. It always pops up annoying bubbles, makes clicking sounds, randomly shows and hides icons, and doesn't standardize the way you can add/remove icons. OS X fails a bit in this area, too, as it's not intuitive to remove items from the menubar.
  - greyhat 18y ago
    Hmm, maybe more people agree with this guy than I thought. I have used all of the windowing systems I mentioned, and I vastly prefer being able to see open windows, with the few things that need to run in the background being tucked away in the tray. The OS X dock just seems wierd to me, in terms of being able to quickly access open windows and to get a good idea what is running on your system.
jcromartie 18y ago
Let me know when they actually make some usability breakthroughs instead of slapping more translucency on the widgets and throwing more things to read on dialogs.
lallysingh 18y ago
So, how many people run windows today? I would've thought that most of the hacker community would be on OSX, Linux, or another *nix.

30 points by technologizer 18y ago

tdoggette 18y ago

Remember when Longhorn had a whole new kernel, and WinFS, and was going to breathe new life into Windows?

gecko 18y ago
In this case, nearly all of the changes are architecturally minor, and though this looks like a very nice Windows release, it largely looks that way precisely because it is not a radical reënvisioning of Windows à la Vista. What we have here is Vista 2.0, with the sucky parts removed, the good parts (yes, there were good parts) kept, and some new, surprisingly well-thought-out, but relatively small enhancements to replace some of the poor features. I am actually pretty confident Microsoft can deliver this one. If they're smart, they'll have a similar incremental improvement scheduled as Windows 8, and get on an OS X/Linux-style rapid release schedule.
socratees 18y ago
Windows 7 is the new vista. :)

axod 18y ago

Meh. It's an operating system... How exciting can an o/s get these days.

bprater 18y ago
You fail at hacker, friend. OS wars are just getting warmed up.
- axod 18y ago
  In what way? What innovation is going on in the O/S world? What has changed radically over the last 5 years? I used to care about the O/S, when you had little choice, when redhat was this small little sapling with a ton of things to do to get to windows. When macs were this weird other world that wasn't so unixy. When windows 95 came out and suddenly this whole new world opened up. In those days, the O/S was the platform. Now, it's probably more important what browser you use than what O/S you use for most people. But we're past all that now, an O/S is an O/S - there are a ton to choose from, they all do pretty much the same thing, and work the same(ish). Now, the main aim for an O/S is to stay the heck out of the way IMHO.
  - snprbob86 18y ago
    There is A LOT of innovation going on in the O/S. Depressingly, not a lot of that truly revolutionary work is going on in the commercial/productized OS world. Sun is doing great stuff with ZFS. Microsoft Research's Singularity is absolutely brilliant. Apple and Google are pushing mobile operating systems further than ever. I'm sure others could cite many more examples.

lux 18y ago

This does highlight a few more changes than the Ars Technica article, but it still looks very unimpressive. A slidebar setting for how often you to be notified about changes you made to your OS? Really? Is that a "can't live without" feature? Or even a mildly useful one? Most of these are rip-offs of toolbar previews from Ubuntu, and Expose, smart folders, and file previews from OS X. These aren't original ideas. Ooh, I like this part "Gadgets now sit directly on the desktop…which they could do even in Vista if you preferred." Wow, so they changed a setting's default value. I'm sold.

bprater 18y ago
Bah, humbug. I read through the changes and thought they were a breath of fresh air for the dinosaur OS. Doesn't all good art borrow from a previous generation and add it's own spin? We've learned that it isn't sweeping changes that make a gadget great, it's the subtle reconfiguration and simplification that does. If Windows 7 can help give my parents a better experience on their computers, I'm all for it.
- lux 18y ago
  Subtle reconfiguration isn't always enough though. I'd love to see the Windows Control Panel cleaned up, for example. That would take a bigger overhaul to do properly. On the flip side, where I agree with you, are subtle things that could be improved like removing all the nag screens they added to Vista. Unfortunately, many of the subtle changes in Vista were steps in the wrong direction, like moving the buttons around in IE7. What did that help? It just confuses users. At least some things, like adding extra protection against phishing, were a good thing.
  - litewulf 18y ago
    You know it was redesigned in Vista. The default work image has it set to classic (I assume because some options are difficult/impossible? to find in the "new" view). I actually prefer it. Some items are 2 clicks instead of 1, but it beats scanning/scrolling. (Then again, I like the UAC, and it doesn't bother me that much. I keep it on, and I basically only see it when installing programs or configuration changes, which I have to sudo in ubuntu anyway...)

greyhat 18y ago

I don't understand this guy's rage against the tray. Almost every desktop system, be it OS X, KDE, Gnome, or XP has something similar. What would he prefer? A taskbar entry for wireless networks? No information at all? He also comments that we are "finally" given options to control tray icons... he must not be too observant then, because starting in XP you could choose to always hide or always show icons, or leave them alone. (e.g. to tell your Antivirus to always hide until you expand, but make sure that your instant messaging app stays in view.) Maybe its just me, but these new OS reviews and previews are always the most ignorant, half baked and opinionated pieces of tech journalism...

SwellJoe 18y ago
The tray is nowhere near configurable enough, and in many cases it relies on the app being polite enough to stay the hell out when you tell it to (many apps are not, in my experience). Notifications from the tray are the real bitch. When watching movies on the HTPC I built with Vista, it frequently interrupts the movie to tell me vitally important information like, "I'm going to check for new Logitech upgrades now!" "No upgrades available." Java does it, too. Infuriating. Maybe there is a way to disable this crap, but I've been unable to figure it out. (But I can't work iTunes, either, so I could just be stupid.)
dcurtis 18y ago
Unlike KDE, Gnome, OS X, etc, Windows' taskbar never shuts up. It always pops up annoying bubbles, makes clicking sounds, randomly shows and hides icons, and doesn't standardize the way you can add/remove icons. OS X fails a bit in this area, too, as it's not intuitive to remove items from the menubar.
- greyhat 18y ago
  Hmm, maybe more people agree with this guy than I thought. I have used all of the windowing systems I mentioned, and I vastly prefer being able to see open windows, with the few things that need to run in the background being tucked away in the tray. The OS X dock just seems wierd to me, in terms of being able to quickly access open windows and to get a good idea what is running on your system.

jcromartie 18y ago

Let me know when they actually make some usability breakthroughs instead of slapping more translucency on the widgets and throwing more things to read on dialogs.

lallysingh 18y ago

So, how many people run windows today? I would've thought that most of the hacker community would be on OSX, Linux, or another *nix.