4 ms·

i struggle to get on board with "corruption as a cultural value". What's deeper than these are usually more positive values, perhaps it's entepreneuralism, or o

i struggle to get on board with "corruption as a cultural value". What's deeper than these are usually more positive values, perhaps it's entepreneuralism, or often its just a sense of justice (communal resources belong to members of community). What you see is "corruption at every level" is just a systemic lubricant necessary for business to occur in the absence of rules and regulations that arefair, just, "followable", and are agreed to by everyone.

trabant00 4y ago
There is no lack of rules and regulations where I'm from - Eastern Europe. People are well aware they are breaking said rules. As for spreading wealth - far from it, everybody hoards as much as they can for themselves at the expense of others who are in many cases worse off. About cultural values, an anecdotal example: every time somebody gets prison time for stealing, fraud, embezzlement, etc, people comment things like "4 years for X million euros? Would gladly take that deal". Also people who make money with drugs or human trafficking are idols for many young people and they are open about it. We have song hits about this life style. This is what I call culture.
- eloff 4y ago
  I met a Russian in the “banana export” business once. He espoused that exact same mentality: "4 years for X million euros? Would gladly take that deal". Interpol caught up with him since and he’s living that deal now while his wife manages his assets. I wonder if she’s still his wife and I wonder if he still thinks it was worthwhile.
  - from 4y ago
    How much do you think he made? Even if he got 20 years if he made $20 million it could still be worth it to him (assuming he was successful enough his wife probably doesn't know about all his assets anyways). Most of these people come from nothing and do this for living knowing the risks so I doubt prison is the end of the world for them.
nine_k 4y ago
Struggle not. Imagine that you grow up in an environment where laboring is a way to sustain a so-so existence, and never anything more. The only way to make it big is to steal big. It's a life goal. If you get to a position if any power, you are expected to steal. If you do, others envy you. If you don't, others, including the regular folk, despise you, because they see you as an inept fool; were they in your position, they'd grab so much more! Also, your bosses tacitly expect that you grease their hand with some of the spoils from your position of some power; if you don't, you will lose your position, there are many more willing candidates. The above happens naturally when people see the wealth of their community, or their whole society, as a loot box to grab, not as an orchard to grow. It's very easy to hold such views when much wealth comes from, well, grabbing natural resources like oil, ores, timber, etc. It may also be a convenient setup for those on the top, because it prevents people from trying to do something else than to get to the top the elites already control. No competition to the elites is going to form through cooperation and accumulation of wealth. Once formed by greedy bandits, or instilled by conquerors (that is, greedy bandits from elsewhere), this sick system can continue as long as there are resources to extract and sell, boxes to loot. Of course even inside societies like those there are people who would prefer a different setup. Of course the change to a better society is not impossible. But it's a change that needs to alter ingrained values of many people, and topple many tiny power structures built on those which permeate the society. Such a change cannot be fast.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

trabant00 4y ago

There is no lack of rules and regulations where I'm from - Eastern Europe. People are well aware they are breaking said rules. As for spreading wealth - far from it, everybody hoards as much as they can for themselves at the expense of others who are in many cases worse off. About cultural values, an anecdotal example: every time somebody gets prison time for stealing, fraud, embezzlement, etc, people comment things like "4 years for X million euros? Would gladly take that deal". Also people who make money with drugs or human trafficking are idols for many young people and they are open about it. We have song hits about this life style. This is what I call culture.

eloff 4y ago
I met a Russian in the “banana export” business once. He espoused that exact same mentality: "4 years for X million euros? Would gladly take that deal". Interpol caught up with him since and he’s living that deal now while his wife manages his assets. I wonder if she’s still his wife and I wonder if he still thinks it was worthwhile.
- from 4y ago
  How much do you think he made? Even if he got 20 years if he made $20 million it could still be worth it to him (assuming he was successful enough his wife probably doesn't know about all his assets anyways). Most of these people come from nothing and do this for living knowing the risks so I doubt prison is the end of the world for them.

nine_k 4y ago

Struggle not. Imagine that you grow up in an environment where laboring is a way to sustain a so-so existence, and never anything more. The only way to make it big is to steal big. It's a life goal. If you get to a position if any power, you are expected to steal. If you do, others envy you. If you don't, others, including the regular folk, despise you, because they see you as an inept fool; were they in your position, they'd grab so much more! Also, your bosses tacitly expect that you grease their hand with some of the spoils from your position of some power; if you don't, you will lose your position, there are many more willing candidates. The above happens naturally when people see the wealth of their community, or their whole society, as a loot box to grab, not as an orchard to grow. It's very easy to hold such views when much wealth comes from, well, grabbing natural resources like oil, ores, timber, etc. It may also be a convenient setup for those on the top, because it prevents people from trying to do something else than to get to the top the elites already control. No competition to the elites is going to form through cooperation and accumulation of wealth. Once formed by greedy bandits, or instilled by conquerors (that is, greedy bandits from elsewhere), this sick system can continue as long as there are resources to extract and sell, boxes to loot. Of course even inside societies like those there are people who would prefer a different setup. Of course the change to a better society is not impossible. But it's a change that needs to alter ingrained values of many people, and topple many tiny power structures built on those which permeate the society. Such a change cannot be fast.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]