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Tether supports redemptions of USDT to USD: https://tether.to/es/redeem-tethers-to-your-bank-account/ https://tether.to/es/redeem-tethers-to-your-bank-account/

by rcme 4y ago

lmm 4y ago
They claim to, if you meet their verification requirements, and if you're requesting enough. What's the betting that their account verification would happen to have some technical issues during any crisis?
arcticbull 4y ago
They claim to but nobody has posted proof that they got their money. Their terms of service at tether.to/legal says they can basically deny or indefinitely delay redemptions arbitrarily, and the only people who backed up Tether's claims publicly are SBF and Trabucco and I'm not sure I believe them anymore.
- SilasX 4y ago
  If someone didn’t get their money when they tried to redeem, they would definitely scream bloody murder about that. So far, no such party has.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    They're simply not incentivized to do that. If they did their USDT would actually become worthless. If they said nothing and simply exchanged it to the next fool, they get their money. Contractually, Tether doesn't allow redemptions from most people. New Yorkers are excluded thanks to the NYAG settlement. US persons are (or were when I checked) blanket excluded in their terms. Of the remainder, only their 'customers' as defined at their sole discretion are eligible for redemptions. Then, you have to meet minimum transaction size requirements ($100K I believe) and also pay their fees. What individual would bother doing all that when they can hit 'sell' on Coinbase? So once the retail rubes are ruled out, you've really only got gigaholders whose fate is so tied to USDT's continued existence and value that pantsing the emperor leaves them rekt.
    - SilasX 4y ago
      Okay. So your argument requires no one to ever pull the trigger for mutually assured destruction in his case, over a broad universe of non-cooperating actors, and even if they had another way to benefit from the collapse of crypto that they would be causing. That still leaves it in a tenuous position. Edit: for your later addition: >What individual would bother doing all that when they can hit 'sell' on Coinbase? In addition to the above, someone doing an arb play during any one of tether’s many “it’s gonna die this time for real” depeggings.
      - arcticbull 4y ago
        The thing is it's not really speculation. The CFTC and NYAG statements said in no uncertain terms that there were long periods of time where Tether did not have the money to cover their obligations. Letitia James says: > The OAG’s investigation found that, starting no later than mid-2017, Tether had no access to banking, anywhere in the world, and so for periods of time held no reserves to back tethers in circulation at the rate of one dollar for every tether, contrary to its representations. The CFTC says: > As found in the order, Tether held sufficient fiat reserves in its accounts to back USDT tether tokens in circulation for only 27.6% of the days in a 26-month sample time period from 2016 through 2018. I don't personally think that it's impossible to redeem, I think they're almost guaranteed not to be good for all outstanding Tethers. I think they keep some small pool of liquidity to satisfy certain key partners, and gamble with the rest of it hoping for yield they can take off the table for themselves. I strongly suspect they got ruined during the downturn. They had a ton of Celsius equity, for instance. I think they loan tethers to institutional players in the space without collateral, too. [edit] I'm not sure BFX actually arbs the peg, I think they stopped? I'm trying to find my source. However, I do know Alameda arbed the peg. > Edit: for your later addition: Sorry for the ninja add.
        SilasX 4y ago
        > The thing is it's not really speculation. What's not really speculation? The new goal post you moved to, or the point I was originally contesting, before you retreated to an unrelated argument for which you could dump piles of (also unrelated) evidence? You were claiming[1] that Tether isn't honoring redemptions, based on the fact that no one's screaming "Hey, look at me, I just got some USD back for my tethers, 1:1" -- even though people could also point to tether's failure to redeem, and even profit from advance knowledge of the imminent crypto collapse it would trigger. Now, with no acknowledgement of what just happened, you're moving to this argument: >>I don't personally think that it's impossible to redeem, I think they're almost guaranteed not to be good for all outstanding Tethers. It looks like you have no aversion to making a baseless claim, and then firehosing evidence of a different one when called on it. I don't think that makes for a productive exchange of ideas. I mean, if you really believed that Tether was honoring at least some redemptions[2], why would you casually make the argument that, gosh, we don't have reports of successful redemptions, they must not be doing any at all? >I'm not sure BFX actually arbs the peg, Yep, another point I never made. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34635720 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34635720 [2] >> I think they keep some small pool of liquidity to satisfy certain key partners,
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    Then go redeem one. We’re all watching.

Tether supports redemptions of USDT to USD: https://tether.to/es/redeem-tethers-to-your-bank-account/ https://tether.to/es/redeem-tethers-to-your-bank-account/

by rcme 4y ago

Tether supports redemptions of USDT to USD: https://tether.to/es/redeem-tethers-to-your-bank-account/ https://tether.to/es/redeem-tethers-to-your-bank-account/

lmm 4y ago

They claim to, if you meet their verification requirements, and if you're requesting enough. What's the betting that their account verification would happen to have some technical issues during any crisis?

arcticbull 4y ago

They claim to but nobody has posted proof that they got their money. Their terms of service at tether.to/legal says they can basically deny or indefinitely delay redemptions arbitrarily, and the only people who backed up Tether's claims publicly are SBF and Trabucco and I'm not sure I believe them anymore.

SilasX 4y ago
If someone didn’t get their money when they tried to redeem, they would definitely scream bloody murder about that. So far, no such party has.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  They're simply not incentivized to do that. If they did their USDT would actually become worthless. If they said nothing and simply exchanged it to the next fool, they get their money. Contractually, Tether doesn't allow redemptions from most people. New Yorkers are excluded thanks to the NYAG settlement. US persons are (or were when I checked) blanket excluded in their terms. Of the remainder, only their 'customers' as defined at their sole discretion are eligible for redemptions. Then, you have to meet minimum transaction size requirements ($100K I believe) and also pay their fees. What individual would bother doing all that when they can hit 'sell' on Coinbase? So once the retail rubes are ruled out, you've really only got gigaholders whose fate is so tied to USDT's continued existence and value that pantsing the emperor leaves them rekt.
  - SilasX 4y ago
    Okay. So your argument requires no one to ever pull the trigger for mutually assured destruction in his case, over a broad universe of non-cooperating actors, and even if they had another way to benefit from the collapse of crypto that they would be causing. That still leaves it in a tenuous position. Edit: for your later addition: >What individual would bother doing all that when they can hit 'sell' on Coinbase? In addition to the above, someone doing an arb play during any one of tether’s many “it’s gonna die this time for real” depeggings.
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      The thing is it's not really speculation. The CFTC and NYAG statements said in no uncertain terms that there were long periods of time where Tether did not have the money to cover their obligations. Letitia James says: > The OAG’s investigation found that, starting no later than mid-2017, Tether had no access to banking, anywhere in the world, and so for periods of time held no reserves to back tethers in circulation at the rate of one dollar for every tether, contrary to its representations. The CFTC says: > As found in the order, Tether held sufficient fiat reserves in its accounts to back USDT tether tokens in circulation for only 27.6% of the days in a 26-month sample time period from 2016 through 2018. I don't personally think that it's impossible to redeem, I think they're almost guaranteed not to be good for all outstanding Tethers. I think they keep some small pool of liquidity to satisfy certain key partners, and gamble with the rest of it hoping for yield they can take off the table for themselves. I strongly suspect they got ruined during the downturn. They had a ton of Celsius equity, for instance. I think they loan tethers to institutional players in the space without collateral, too. [edit] I'm not sure BFX actually arbs the peg, I think they stopped? I'm trying to find my source. However, I do know Alameda arbed the peg. > Edit: for your later addition: Sorry for the ninja add.
      - SilasX 4y ago
        > The thing is it's not really speculation. What's not really speculation? The new goal post you moved to, or the point I was originally contesting, before you retreated to an unrelated argument for which you could dump piles of (also unrelated) evidence? You were claiming[1] that Tether isn't honoring redemptions, based on the fact that no one's screaming "Hey, look at me, I just got some USD back for my tethers, 1:1" -- even though people could also point to tether's failure to redeem, and even profit from advance knowledge of the imminent crypto collapse it would trigger. Now, with no acknowledgement of what just happened, you're moving to this argument: >>I don't personally think that it's impossible to redeem, I think they're almost guaranteed not to be good for all outstanding Tethers. It looks like you have no aversion to making a baseless claim, and then firehosing evidence of a different one when called on it. I don't think that makes for a productive exchange of ideas. I mean, if you really believed that Tether was honoring at least some redemptions[2], why would you casually make the argument that, gosh, we don't have reports of successful redemptions, they must not be doing any at all? >I'm not sure BFX actually arbs the peg, Yep, another point I never made. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34635720 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34635720 [2] >> I think they keep some small pool of liquidity to satisfy certain key partners,
- oneoff786 4y ago
  Then go redeem one. We’re all watching.