6 ms·

That is a falsehood. Per the FBI: "White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for 59.1 perc

That is a falsehood. Per the FBI: "White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for 59.1 percent of those arrests." https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

antihipocrat 4y ago
Relative propensity to commit violent crimes is the key metric here, not overall volumes.
- jonathanlb 4y ago
  No it is not. > I think it's fair to point out that men commit most violent crimes. That's not good/normal/expected it's just a fact. > Again, replace “men” with “African Americans” and you also have a statistically true statement (in America at least) that would be considered taboo.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    It makes sense for someone to say "most" in the dichotomy of man / woman more so than it does in the polychotomy of white / black / hispanic or latino / etc. This argument relies on that phrasing to Dwight Schrute them on a technicality rather than arguing related points.
  - antihipocrat 4y ago
    Men and women are split almost 50/50 in the population, using volumes is completely sound in this case.
- axpy906 4y ago
  Comment inspired me to ask it about rape stats in men women. Fist prompt was calling my information incorrect. Second prompt I told it to include prisons, said I was right and then contradicted itself. Go figure.
- yterdy 4y ago
  This is a failure of mathematical (and, frankly, verbal and philosophical) understanding. If you have 10 arrests shared between 7 white men and 3 black, with 1 black man having allegedly offended 5 times and 5 white men having allegedly offended once, where do your resources go? Or the opposite, 1 white guy with 5 arrests, 5 split between 2 black men? Howsabout in a country with presumed innocence? In a country - in individual police jurisdictions - with a history, in living memory, of frivolous arrests made for economic purposes? In a country whose only peers in incarceration are dysfunctional, systemic human rights abusers?
  - antihipocrat 4y ago
    Yep, the data was counting arrests, not individuals. You raise some great points, but in the context of the discussion I don't see how any of the comments represent a failure of mathematical, verbal, and philosophical understanding.
    - yterdy 4y ago
      You didn't understand the issue and jumped to a conclusion not supported by the numbers. Verbal, philosophical, mathmatical.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
Maybe I'm not looking at the right number[0] (there is a 59.3% lower on the page which appears to be a more specific response: "White alone, not Hispanic or Latino") but it looks like 59.1% of arrests are against 75.8% of the population. Inversely, 40.9% of arrests are against 24.2% of the population. [0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/RHI125221 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/RHI125221
legolas2412 4y ago
Why would you not normalize by population to quote per Capita numbers?
- isleyaardvark 4y ago
  Because the original comment said “most” and not “more”.
- honkler 4y ago
  because then it would be apparent that blacks make up 13% of the population, yet commit 56% of violent crimes.
mshake2 4y ago
Whites are 60% of the population though, so they're being arrested in proportion with their representation. They also do not separate white-latino and white-non-latino, so the colloquial "white" is being lumped in with another ethnicity. Also, in 2019, blacks were just under 13% of the population, yet they are represented 2x-4x over in virtually ever crime category in that table. So it is true and you're distorting the table.
- jxramos 4y ago
  the thing that's always confused me is why would this category of white lumping together latino even be a thing in the first place? Just seems like a really harebrained idea. That association always confuses many hispanics I know during each census. Was there a rationale for this lumping? I never understood it, just seemed to beg for fuzzy/blurred/confusing metrics.
  - dmix 4y ago
    Maybe it's something that made sense at some point in the past and now it's too difficult to change because it will mess up historical analysis/trends? Not to mention motives will immediately be questioned by anyone who tries to fix it and who really wants to die on that hill in the current political climate? South Asian vs East asian is another group that often gets lumped together in demographic statistics as 'Asian'. Despite significant differences in geography/race/culture/etc. Regardless, I'd also be curious to hear the real rational for the Latino one
  - the_af 4y ago
    What does "white" mean? Light skin tone, certain physical features? If so, many Latinos are white and that would explain the grouping. Or does it only mean anglosaxon heritage? If so, why?
    - jxramos 4y ago
      yah I'm fuzzy on what white is too precisely. I was going to say caucasian but I don't even know what caucasian means exactly. I guess going by today's landscape I think most people would assume European, but that's a pretty broad swath too with lots of variation in it.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
yterdy 4y ago
People of color are also more likely to be arrested without having committed a crime. Arrest statistics are also self-reported by police, both on an individual officer and department-to-FBI level, with no accountability for the accuracy or completeness thereof that I'm aware of. Violent crimes also account for only a portion of the economic damage crime-in-general deals to society, if we want to get utilitarian. Wage theft dwarfs all types of robbery and burglary, and that's only one type of white-collar theft (perpetrated, in the US, overwhelmingly by white people). Thank you for correcting this disinformation. It's something that gets trotted out regularly without acknowledgement of how ridiculously imperfect our law enforcement and justice systems are.

antihipocrat 4y ago

Relative propensity to commit violent crimes is the key metric here, not overall volumes.

jonathanlb 4y ago
No it is not. > I think it's fair to point out that men commit most violent crimes. That's not good/normal/expected it's just a fact. > Again, replace “men” with “African Americans” and you also have a statistically true statement (in America at least) that would be considered taboo.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
  It makes sense for someone to say "most" in the dichotomy of man / woman more so than it does in the polychotomy of white / black / hispanic or latino / etc. This argument relies on that phrasing to Dwight Schrute them on a technicality rather than arguing related points.
- antihipocrat 4y ago
  Men and women are split almost 50/50 in the population, using volumes is completely sound in this case.
axpy906 4y ago
Comment inspired me to ask it about rape stats in men women. Fist prompt was calling my information incorrect. Second prompt I told it to include prisons, said I was right and then contradicted itself. Go figure.
yterdy 4y ago
This is a failure of mathematical (and, frankly, verbal and philosophical) understanding. If you have 10 arrests shared between 7 white men and 3 black, with 1 black man having allegedly offended 5 times and 5 white men having allegedly offended once, where do your resources go? Or the opposite, 1 white guy with 5 arrests, 5 split between 2 black men? Howsabout in a country with presumed innocence? In a country - in individual police jurisdictions - with a history, in living memory, of frivolous arrests made for economic purposes? In a country whose only peers in incarceration are dysfunctional, systemic human rights abusers?
- antihipocrat 4y ago
  Yep, the data was counting arrests, not individuals. You raise some great points, but in the context of the discussion I don't see how any of the comments represent a failure of mathematical, verbal, and philosophical understanding.
  - yterdy 4y ago
    You didn't understand the issue and jumped to a conclusion not supported by the numbers. Verbal, philosophical, mathmatical.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago

Maybe I'm not looking at the right number[0] (there is a 59.3% lower on the page which appears to be a more specific response: "White alone, not Hispanic or Latino") but it looks like 59.1% of arrests are against 75.8% of the population. Inversely, 40.9% of arrests are against 24.2% of the population. [0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/RHI125221 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/RHI125221

legolas2412 4y ago

Why would you not normalize by population to quote per Capita numbers?

isleyaardvark 4y ago
Because the original comment said “most” and not “more”.
honkler 4y ago
because then it would be apparent that blacks make up 13% of the population, yet commit 56% of violent crimes.

mshake2 4y ago

Whites are 60% of the population though, so they're being arrested in proportion with their representation. They also do not separate white-latino and white-non-latino, so the colloquial "white" is being lumped in with another ethnicity. Also, in 2019, blacks were just under 13% of the population, yet they are represented 2x-4x over in virtually ever crime category in that table. So it is true and you're distorting the table.

jxramos 4y ago
the thing that's always confused me is why would this category of white lumping together latino even be a thing in the first place? Just seems like a really harebrained idea. That association always confuses many hispanics I know during each census. Was there a rationale for this lumping? I never understood it, just seemed to beg for fuzzy/blurred/confusing metrics.
- dmix 4y ago
  Maybe it's something that made sense at some point in the past and now it's too difficult to change because it will mess up historical analysis/trends? Not to mention motives will immediately be questioned by anyone who tries to fix it and who really wants to die on that hill in the current political climate? South Asian vs East asian is another group that often gets lumped together in demographic statistics as 'Asian'. Despite significant differences in geography/race/culture/etc. Regardless, I'd also be curious to hear the real rational for the Latino one
- the_af 4y ago
  What does "white" mean? Light skin tone, certain physical features? If so, many Latinos are white and that would explain the grouping. Or does it only mean anglosaxon heritage? If so, why?
  - jxramos 4y ago
    yah I'm fuzzy on what white is too precisely. I was going to say caucasian but I don't even know what caucasian means exactly. I guess going by today's landscape I think most people would assume European, but that's a pretty broad swath too with lots of variation in it.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

yterdy 4y ago

People of color are also more likely to be arrested without having committed a crime. Arrest statistics are also self-reported by police, both on an individual officer and department-to-FBI level, with no accountability for the accuracy or completeness thereof that I'm aware of. Violent crimes also account for only a portion of the economic damage crime-in-general deals to society, if we want to get utilitarian. Wage theft dwarfs all types of robbery and burglary, and that's only one type of white-collar theft (perpetrated, in the US, overwhelmingly by white people). Thank you for correcting this disinformation. It's something that gets trotted out regularly without acknowledgement of how ridiculously imperfect our law enforcement and justice systems are.