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How many people who can afford a Mac can't ALSO afford a gaming PC? I'd say VERY few. Also, gaming graphical quality probably isn't your goal if you DO choose t

How many people who can afford a Mac can't ALSO afford a gaming PC? I'd say VERY few. Also, gaming graphical quality probably isn't your goal if you DO choose to game on a Mac. Macs are notoriously underpowered when it comes to gaming. To add to that, Macs are notorious for not supporting many games. The games that ARE ported are mostly made by big companies, who's profits on the game is so high that hiring a small team to port it to Mac is a small expenditure. Why not port it, eh? Still, I think gaming on Mac would be in a much better place if they didn't have such a tedious app release process. Having to install xcode (which is an abysmal IDE until you FORCE yourself to unlearn everything you know about, you know, how a reasonable IDE should work!) and sign apps is just pointless drudgework. Unity should handle all of this, but I assume that no one at Apple is returning Unity's calls. Greasing the flywheel of indie devs is generally a good way to build up your gaming platform.

TheMode 4y ago
The new mac mini is $599.
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  And if you buy it, you're choosing convenience and ease of use over raw performance and upgradeability. If someone can make that choice, they can probably drop another $600 on a gaming PC to go along with it.
olliej 4y ago
> Having to install Xcode ( ..you mean you don't have to install developer tools on your platform? > which is an abysmal IDE until you FORCE yourself to unlearn everything you know about, you know, how a reasonable IDE should work! Plenty of people love Xcode, it's likely you're interpreting "different from how my IDE works" as "clearly incorrect". Having spent plenty of time dealing with MSVC, Netbeans, various Borland IDEs, etc over my life Xcode seems perfectly fine, and clearly better than msvc. > ) and sign apps is just pointless drudgework. Signing apps is not drudge work, but also is not hard. > Unity should handle all of this, but I assume that no one at Apple is returning Unity's calls. Based on what I see from the game industry I would assume no one at Unity is calling Apple in the first place, and I would assume that if being ignored is happening in any direction it's unity ignoring apple.
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  > ..you mean you don't have to install developer tools on your platform? People always ask me this when I complain about xcode and I don't understand where they're coming from. Have you developed apps for Linux or Windows? You don't need to use a specific IDE to sign your code, I can tell you that much. > Plenty of people love Xcode Well, I haven't met one. All of the iOS developers I know tell me "Yeah, it's a weird bird, but you gotta learn it". Have you experienced otherwise? > Having spent plenty of time dealing with Well let's all stop discussing the relative merits of things, olliej has spoken about what's good or bad. Everyone else's thoughts and opinions are meaningless. > Signing apps is not drudge work, but also is not hard. Shrug Difference of opinion, I guess.
  - olliej 4y ago
    > People always ask me this when I complain about xcode and I don't understand where they're coming from. Have you developed apps for Linux or Windows? Yes. For many years. And those platforms also require you to install the toolchains for your target platforms. On macOS those toolchains come with a IDE, but there's no need nor requirement to use it. As demonstrated by large numbers of Mac devs using emacs, vim, vscode, etc all of which use a separately installed toolchain on every platform. On your various linux systems you're using apt-get or similar to install the toolchains and SDKs, on windows you're having to download and install them as well (historically having to pay for the toolchain as part of MSVC or such, but I assume that that's no longer the case). > You don't need to use a specific IDE to sign your code, I can tell you that much. You don't need to use Xcode to do that either, you can think of it as the dev tools also include a UI you can use, but can also ignore. codesign -s "MY Certificate Here" my.app No one is forced to use Xcode. The various SDKs and toolchains needed to develop for apple platforms are all included in a single bundle that is labeled Xcode.app, but what you are downloading is by an large just the toolchains and SDKs on a pure "what are the bulk of the bytes for" sense. > Well, I haven't met one. All of the iOS developers I know tell me "Yeah, it's a weird bird, but you gotta learn it". Have you experienced otherwise? Yes, that's literally what I said. It's also the IDE I've tended to prefer over the years, easily better than MSVC in my experience, but again that could be because I've learned and prefer Xcode to MSVC. OTOH I was also using MSVC a long time prior to Xcode so I didn't arrive at Xcode with no prior IDE experience. > > Having spent plenty of time dealing with > Well let's all stop discussing the relative merits of things, olliej has spoken about what's good or bad. Everyone else's thoughts and opinions are meaningless. While I agree I should have said "in my opinion Xcode is better than msvc", but I also didn't say any one else's thoughts and opinions were meaningless. In fact the whole crux of my comment was that you were passing your dislike of Xcode as though it were objective fact rather than an opinion. > > Signing apps is not drudge work, but also is not hard. > Shrug Difference of opinion, I guess. see above, it's a single command line that you can put in a makefile or whatever.

TheMode 4y ago

The new mac mini is $599.

phendrenad2 4y ago
And if you buy it, you're choosing convenience and ease of use over raw performance and upgradeability. If someone can make that choice, they can probably drop another $600 on a gaming PC to go along with it.

olliej 4y ago

> Having to install Xcode ( ..you mean you don't have to install developer tools on your platform? > which is an abysmal IDE until you FORCE yourself to unlearn everything you know about, you know, how a reasonable IDE should work! Plenty of people love Xcode, it's likely you're interpreting "different from how my IDE works" as "clearly incorrect". Having spent plenty of time dealing with MSVC, Netbeans, various Borland IDEs, etc over my life Xcode seems perfectly fine, and clearly better than msvc. > ) and sign apps is just pointless drudgework. Signing apps is not drudge work, but also is not hard. > Unity should handle all of this, but I assume that no one at Apple is returning Unity's calls. Based on what I see from the game industry I would assume no one at Unity is calling Apple in the first place, and I would assume that if being ignored is happening in any direction it's unity ignoring apple.

phendrenad2 4y ago
> ..you mean you don't have to install developer tools on your platform? People always ask me this when I complain about xcode and I don't understand where they're coming from. Have you developed apps for Linux or Windows? You don't need to use a specific IDE to sign your code, I can tell you that much. > Plenty of people love Xcode Well, I haven't met one. All of the iOS developers I know tell me "Yeah, it's a weird bird, but you gotta learn it". Have you experienced otherwise? > Having spent plenty of time dealing with Well let's all stop discussing the relative merits of things, olliej has spoken about what's good or bad. Everyone else's thoughts and opinions are meaningless. > Signing apps is not drudge work, but also is not hard. Shrug Difference of opinion, I guess.
- olliej 4y ago
  > People always ask me this when I complain about xcode and I don't understand where they're coming from. Have you developed apps for Linux or Windows? Yes. For many years. And those platforms also require you to install the toolchains for your target platforms. On macOS those toolchains come with a IDE, but there's no need nor requirement to use it. As demonstrated by large numbers of Mac devs using emacs, vim, vscode, etc all of which use a separately installed toolchain on every platform. On your various linux systems you're using apt-get or similar to install the toolchains and SDKs, on windows you're having to download and install them as well (historically having to pay for the toolchain as part of MSVC or such, but I assume that that's no longer the case). > You don't need to use a specific IDE to sign your code, I can tell you that much. You don't need to use Xcode to do that either, you can think of it as the dev tools also include a UI you can use, but can also ignore. codesign -s "MY Certificate Here" my.app No one is forced to use Xcode. The various SDKs and toolchains needed to develop for apple platforms are all included in a single bundle that is labeled Xcode.app, but what you are downloading is by an large just the toolchains and SDKs on a pure "what are the bulk of the bytes for" sense. > Well, I haven't met one. All of the iOS developers I know tell me "Yeah, it's a weird bird, but you gotta learn it". Have you experienced otherwise? Yes, that's literally what I said. It's also the IDE I've tended to prefer over the years, easily better than MSVC in my experience, but again that could be because I've learned and prefer Xcode to MSVC. OTOH I was also using MSVC a long time prior to Xcode so I didn't arrive at Xcode with no prior IDE experience. > > Having spent plenty of time dealing with > Well let's all stop discussing the relative merits of things, olliej has spoken about what's good or bad. Everyone else's thoughts and opinions are meaningless. While I agree I should have said "in my opinion Xcode is better than msvc", but I also didn't say any one else's thoughts and opinions were meaningless. In fact the whole crux of my comment was that you were passing your dislike of Xcode as though it were objective fact rather than an opinion. > > Signing apps is not drudge work, but also is not hard. > Shrug Difference of opinion, I guess. see above, it's a single command line that you can put in a makefile or whatever.