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> OP said that his role is senior developer. Developer. Not a manager. Not a team lead. But someone who wants to write code, preferably together with other expe

by ctvo 4y ago

> OP said that his role is senior developer. Developer. Not a manager. Not a team lead. But someone who wants to write code, preferably together with other experienced developers, and by doing so, enjoy the process of learning and understanding technology at a deeper level. Why, then, would one expect his responsibility to be motivating juniors, giving them work, or raising them to be leaders? It sounds like you and the OP want to be "just" an engineer (mid level ), which is a terminal level at these companies. You can stay there your entire career, make the maximum salary for that band, and continue to focus mostly on writing code. Wanting the higher pay and title, but none of the responsibility isn't realistic. You have misunderstood what the senior / staff role is, not the company. The expectation is you lead, mentor, and do less coding. Alternatively, become very, very deep at a niche field, like high performance computing, and go work for a trading firm if your goal is the same salary while focusing on writing code. Few others will pay you 500k+ to solve common distributed system problems and producing CRUD apps.

jeffwask 4y ago
This is the most honest answer and something I have seen a lot folks who want the higher pay of the higher roles but none of the responsibility.
- azangru 4y ago
  > lot folks who want the higher pay of the higher roles but none of the responsibility Isn't building a high-quality product with a sound architecture, while making correct technical decisions, and writing well-tested and properly documented code, all the while identifying and integrating the best practices that your field has developed so far responsibility enough?
  - jeffwask 4y ago
    Not really, no. The value of your contribution over the person next to you is marginal at best after a certain point. Even if you are say 50% more efficient than the next engineer. You will still be less valuable than someone who operates as a force multiplier improving the efficiency of 8 engineers by 15%. Now, don't get me wrong I love having doers on my team but when the rubber meets the road I'll reward the folks who lift all boats first. Especially with the rate of turnover these days, having someone who can rapidly onboard and get engineers up and running can make huge difference and if you are working on basic B2B SAAS stuff on standard languages, there are tons of good mid-levels out there. If you shift into niche languages or are doing something complex the equation is likely to change.
    - Viliam1234 4y ago
      > The value of your contribution over the person next to you is marginal at best after a certain point. Even if you are say 50% more efficient than the next engineer. You will still be less valuable than someone who operates as a force multiplier improving the efficiency of 8 engineers by 15%. If someone is 50% more efficient than someone else, I would naively think it makes sense to pay them 50% more... without requiring them to also become a part-time manager. If it isn't so, then it naively seems to me that junior developers are overpaid, and senior developers are relatively underpaid. Improve your productivity by 100%, and get a 10% raise (or a 30% raise but you also get extra duties). Some companies simply do not hire junior developers, which seems like they agree with me. And the companies that hire juniors, are probably doing it out of desperation (because seniors are not available at the moment), or because they expect that most of those juniors will forget to negotiate for a higher salary when their productivity multiplies a few years later. Would you hire junior developers if you knew with 100% certainty that after 1 year all of them will leave in order to get a market-level salary for their gained experience?

by ctvo 4y ago

jeffwask 4y ago

This is the most honest answer and something I have seen a lot folks who want the higher pay of the higher roles but none of the responsibility.

azangru 4y ago
> lot folks who want the higher pay of the higher roles but none of the responsibility Isn't building a high-quality product with a sound architecture, while making correct technical decisions, and writing well-tested and properly documented code, all the while identifying and integrating the best practices that your field has developed so far responsibility enough?
- jeffwask 4y ago
  Not really, no. The value of your contribution over the person next to you is marginal at best after a certain point. Even if you are say 50% more efficient than the next engineer. You will still be less valuable than someone who operates as a force multiplier improving the efficiency of 8 engineers by 15%. Now, don't get me wrong I love having doers on my team but when the rubber meets the road I'll reward the folks who lift all boats first. Especially with the rate of turnover these days, having someone who can rapidly onboard and get engineers up and running can make huge difference and if you are working on basic B2B SAAS stuff on standard languages, there are tons of good mid-levels out there. If you shift into niche languages or are doing something complex the equation is likely to change.
  - Viliam1234 4y ago
    > The value of your contribution over the person next to you is marginal at best after a certain point. Even if you are say 50% more efficient than the next engineer. You will still be less valuable than someone who operates as a force multiplier improving the efficiency of 8 engineers by 15%. If someone is 50% more efficient than someone else, I would naively think it makes sense to pay them 50% more... without requiring them to also become a part-time manager. If it isn't so, then it naively seems to me that junior developers are overpaid, and senior developers are relatively underpaid. Improve your productivity by 100%, and get a 10% raise (or a 30% raise but you also get extra duties). Some companies simply do not hire junior developers, which seems like they agree with me. And the companies that hire juniors, are probably doing it out of desperation (because seniors are not available at the moment), or because they expect that most of those juniors will forget to negotiate for a higher salary when their productivity multiplies a few years later. Would you hire junior developers if you knew with 100% certainty that after 1 year all of them will leave in order to get a market-level salary for their gained experience?