6 ms·

"He had a special CRT monitor to get the best refresh rate to be as competitive as possible for the game" People like that always trying to compensate for a la

"He had a special CRT monitor to get the best refresh rate to be as competitive as possible for the game" People like that always trying to compensate for a lack of skill

ackatz 4y ago
Meanwhile all of the best players in the world are using 240hz monitors…
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  I didn't say refresh rate didn't matter. Buy buying a new CRT in the late 90s with a slightly better refresh rate isn't going to be much of an advantage.
  - nrb 4y ago
    The difference was pretty drastic. My NEC FP2141SB in the early 2000s ran 1280x1024 @ 100hz, those Diamondtron/Tronitron tubes were next-level for their time even though they were super finicky.
    - dbttdft 4y ago
      Yeah the range of CRT quality was huge and visible. Those were a type of product where price actually correlated to quality. With an LCD you could pay $1000 for a "gaming" model and still get something that has basic issues like high input lag or strong overshoot. With CRT it meant the screen is now flat, the image is now bigger than 17", and the focus is now sharper.
- kcb 4y ago
  Most of them purposely gimp themselves by running in 4:3. I've watched major tournament losses due to pro players not being able to spot someone they would if they were running widescreen.
  - deadbunny 4y ago
    The reason they run 4:3 on 16:9 monitors is to stretch the horizontal and make their targets effectively larger on their screen. Obviously that comes with downsides as you mention.
    - kcb 4y ago
      Most pros don’t actually stretch their screen. They just run letterbox. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UaM765-S515ibLyPaBtMnBz7xiao0HL5f-F1zk_CSF4/edit#gid=1762004852 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UaM765-S515ibLyPaBtM...
    - mywittyname 4y ago
      i'm kind of surprised this isn't considered cheating. It's effectively zooming in.
  - the_doctah 4y ago
    Don't you think pros would run widescreen if it was an actual advantage?
    - kcb 4y ago
      One would think.
w0m 4y ago
I wouldn't go that far. Those people are usually still in the top ~5%; just looking for any advantage.
dbttdft 4y ago
Bad monitors are just a gimped setup. Ungimping your setup doesn't mean compensating for a lack of skill. 60Hz LCDs are extremely hard on the eyes because of the large amount of motion blur inherent to displaying something at 60Hz without strobing. They also had very bad pixel response in 1999. They also had medium-high input lag depending on the model and what colors are being displayed on the screen. You also wanted a high end CRT for both better still image sharpness and better refresh rate (lots of them only did 60Hz or 75Hz, and anything that maxed out at 75Hz probably had bad focus, because focus decreases as you raise the refresh rate). Once you start fixing your system (changing mouse polling rate from 125Hz, disabling mouse acceleration), the monitor is just one more thing to fix. All of this is needed just to be able to game competently with the top say, 50% of players (unless your play style just avoids aiming). I remember in UT99 for years always running into situations where my aim was slightly off in situations where I was dead sure it should have hit. Turns out it just used the mouse acceleration feature in windows: the speed at which you move the mouse influences how far the crosshair (or cursor) moves. Once I disabled that I became about 5x better. The next big jumps were turning off vsync (and making sure it doesn't turn itself back on) and going back to CRT from LCD.
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  Yeah that's a lot of "gold wire gives better sound" vibes. Yes, all of that stuff can make a slight difference, but at the end it's not going to be a determining factor in your skill.
  - r9550684 4y ago
    you're skeptical but you had to have been there! cheap 90s hardware was jank, and characteristics you take for granted, because they are on standard issue hardware today, were only available on high end expensive machines. in Eastern Europe we had computer clubs, which were like internet cafes, but without internet. you went there to play lan games, paid by the hour. they were usually packed, and people were usually decent. you had computer club rats, and I was one of them. I played q1, q2 and then cs for money. you show up to a club, strike a pose, "your club's cs fu are that of a dog, I challenge any one of you lamers to de_dust 1x1 deagle only", and then sometimes if you met your match you'd put cash up. even working, well maintained hardware ranged in quality to the point of making significant difference to a game. you always carried your own mouse at least (and sometimes a keyboard), and a config on a floppy disk. but the one thing you learned to spot were monitor makes and brands, for the reasons guy you responding to stated. in fact, occasionally computer club admins in collusion with their house teams will put you on a machine with poor monitor. if you had big team vs team match planned, you'd schedule an outing to a downtown club with known high refresh rate monitors and quality hardware (they were never "the club next door" and their hourly rate was usually higher) to both level the playing field and provide peak possible playing experience.

"He had a special CRT monitor to get the best refresh rate to be as competitive as possible for the game" People like that always trying to compensate for a lack of skill

ackatz 4y ago

Meanwhile all of the best players in the world are using 240hz monitors…

Zurrrrr 4y ago
I didn't say refresh rate didn't matter. Buy buying a new CRT in the late 90s with a slightly better refresh rate isn't going to be much of an advantage.
- nrb 4y ago
  The difference was pretty drastic. My NEC FP2141SB in the early 2000s ran 1280x1024 @ 100hz, those Diamondtron/Tronitron tubes were next-level for their time even though they were super finicky.
  - dbttdft 4y ago
    Yeah the range of CRT quality was huge and visible. Those were a type of product where price actually correlated to quality. With an LCD you could pay $1000 for a "gaming" model and still get something that has basic issues like high input lag or strong overshoot. With CRT it meant the screen is now flat, the image is now bigger than 17", and the focus is now sharper.
kcb 4y ago
Most of them purposely gimp themselves by running in 4:3. I've watched major tournament losses due to pro players not being able to spot someone they would if they were running widescreen.
- deadbunny 4y ago
  The reason they run 4:3 on 16:9 monitors is to stretch the horizontal and make their targets effectively larger on their screen. Obviously that comes with downsides as you mention.
  - kcb 4y ago
    Most pros don’t actually stretch their screen. They just run letterbox. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UaM765-S515ibLyPaBtMnBz7xiao0HL5f-F1zk_CSF4/edit#gid=1762004852 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UaM765-S515ibLyPaBtM...
  - mywittyname 4y ago
    i'm kind of surprised this isn't considered cheating. It's effectively zooming in.
- the_doctah 4y ago
  Don't you think pros would run widescreen if it was an actual advantage?
  - kcb 4y ago
    One would think.

w0m 4y ago

I wouldn't go that far. Those people are usually still in the top ~5%; just looking for any advantage.

dbttdft 4y ago

Bad monitors are just a gimped setup. Ungimping your setup doesn't mean compensating for a lack of skill. 60Hz LCDs are extremely hard on the eyes because of the large amount of motion blur inherent to displaying something at 60Hz without strobing. They also had very bad pixel response in 1999. They also had medium-high input lag depending on the model and what colors are being displayed on the screen. You also wanted a high end CRT for both better still image sharpness and better refresh rate (lots of them only did 60Hz or 75Hz, and anything that maxed out at 75Hz probably had bad focus, because focus decreases as you raise the refresh rate). Once you start fixing your system (changing mouse polling rate from 125Hz, disabling mouse acceleration), the monitor is just one more thing to fix. All of this is needed just to be able to game competently with the top say, 50% of players (unless your play style just avoids aiming). I remember in UT99 for years always running into situations where my aim was slightly off in situations where I was dead sure it should have hit. Turns out it just used the mouse acceleration feature in windows: the speed at which you move the mouse influences how far the crosshair (or cursor) moves. Once I disabled that I became about 5x better. The next big jumps were turning off vsync (and making sure it doesn't turn itself back on) and going back to CRT from LCD.

Zurrrrr 4y ago
Yeah that's a lot of "gold wire gives better sound" vibes. Yes, all of that stuff can make a slight difference, but at the end it's not going to be a determining factor in your skill.
- r9550684 4y ago
  you're skeptical but you had to have been there! cheap 90s hardware was jank, and characteristics you take for granted, because they are on standard issue hardware today, were only available on high end expensive machines. in Eastern Europe we had computer clubs, which were like internet cafes, but without internet. you went there to play lan games, paid by the hour. they were usually packed, and people were usually decent. you had computer club rats, and I was one of them. I played q1, q2 and then cs for money. you show up to a club, strike a pose, "your club's cs fu are that of a dog, I challenge any one of you lamers to de_dust 1x1 deagle only", and then sometimes if you met your match you'd put cash up. even working, well maintained hardware ranged in quality to the point of making significant difference to a game. you always carried your own mouse at least (and sometimes a keyboard), and a config on a floppy disk. but the one thing you learned to spot were monitor makes and brands, for the reasons guy you responding to stated. in fact, occasionally computer club admins in collusion with their house teams will put you on a machine with poor monitor. if you had big team vs team match planned, you'd schedule an outing to a downtown club with known high refresh rate monitors and quality hardware (they were never "the club next door" and their hourly rate was usually higher) to both level the playing field and provide peak possible playing experience.