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I don't think OP referred to authoritarianism about children, but authoritarianism in general. If you had tried to get over the wall you'd been shot and your f

I don't think OP referred to authoritarianism about children, but authoritarianism in general. If you had tried to get over the wall you'd been shot and your family questioned. And they probably would have been suspects for the rest of their life. I'm pretty sure you can find happy kids in North Korea too, it doesn't mean they're not living in an authoritarian society.

dogleash 4y ago
> I don't think OP referred to authoritarianism about children, but authoritarianism in general. Thank you. I can't believe I had to scroll as far as I did to see your comment. I'm not saying the comparison is or isn't apt, but what a side-track to bother arguing that the policy wasn't 1:1 identical.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  Who is arguing other than you? What is there to side-track? People are providing their anecdotes about the Eastern bloc and growing up in it, and how it differs from the western stereotype. A curious mind would encourage learning more about something you likely have had no real world experience with.
nosianu 4y ago
OP wrote in response to a very specific incident, and he wrote exactly about that specific incident before he wrote > This is unacceptable. This is Eastern bloc level authoritarianism. Police are out of control. So I would say my assumption that he was talking about exactly that incident are quite justified, and this was specifically about children walking around on their own. I have no idea how in that very specific text and context of OPs comment some general statement about Eastern Bloc authoritarianism can be deduced, or if it can, how it would make any sense to suddenly bring that up in that very specific context, which OPs comment maintains. As far as I can tell it's always within this frame of the story. I see no reason why my response would not fit perfectly. The Eastern Bloc did not have that problem, it makes no sense to try to reframe it. How does it matter that they (we) had lots of other problems? ones not the subject of the current discussion?
thwayunion 4y ago
> If you had tried to get over the wall you'd been shot and your family questioned. Although I agree with aspects o your general point, this is a bad take. Pretty sure this is also true of the US-Mexico border wall. It's just much longer so it's easier to get away with, but if you tried to cross illegally in front of a law enforcement official and ignored their orders to stop, odds are very good you'd be shot. And your family would definitely be questions during the ensuing investigation.
- ahtihn 4y ago
  > if you tried to cross illegally in front of a law enforcement official and ignored their orders to stop, odds are very good you'd be shot. How is shooting at someone crossing a border illegally reasonable use of force? It's a nonviolent offense that doesn't harm anyone directly.
  - thwayunion 4y ago
    > How By force of law, which is my point :)
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  Maybe the Mexican border guards would shoot you for trying to illegally enter their country. But East German border guards were shooting East Germans who were welcomed by West German guards. Pretending that this is a typical state of border affairs is gross revisionism.
  - thwayunion 4y ago
    > Maybe the Mexican border guards I think there's a good chance that you'd be shot at by US law enforcement if you tried to make an end-run through a border checkpoint, regardless of which direction you're going. In fact, they might even be more aggressive in the US -> Mexico direction (because follow-and-detain is less of an option and the presumption that anyone heading that direction illegally is either smuggling or evading arrest). > But East German border guards were shooting East Germans who were welcomed by West German guards. Pretending that this is a typical state of border affairs is gross revisionism. Of course. I think the point still stands.

dogleash 4y ago

> I don't think OP referred to authoritarianism about children, but authoritarianism in general. Thank you. I can't believe I had to scroll as far as I did to see your comment. I'm not saying the comparison is or isn't apt, but what a side-track to bother arguing that the policy wasn't 1:1 identical.

mynameisvlad 4y ago
Who is arguing other than you? What is there to side-track? People are providing their anecdotes about the Eastern bloc and growing up in it, and how it differs from the western stereotype. A curious mind would encourage learning more about something you likely have had no real world experience with.

nosianu 4y ago

OP wrote in response to a very specific incident, and he wrote exactly about that specific incident before he wrote > This is unacceptable. This is Eastern bloc level authoritarianism. Police are out of control. So I would say my assumption that he was talking about exactly that incident are quite justified, and this was specifically about children walking around on their own. I have no idea how in that very specific text and context of OPs comment some general statement about Eastern Bloc authoritarianism can be deduced, or if it can, how it would make any sense to suddenly bring that up in that very specific context, which OPs comment maintains. As far as I can tell it's always within this frame of the story. I see no reason why my response would not fit perfectly. The Eastern Bloc did not have that problem, it makes no sense to try to reframe it. How does it matter that they (we) had lots of other problems? ones not the subject of the current discussion?

thwayunion 4y ago

> If you had tried to get over the wall you'd been shot and your family questioned. Although I agree with aspects o your general point, this is a bad take. Pretty sure this is also true of the US-Mexico border wall. It's just much longer so it's easier to get away with, but if you tried to cross illegally in front of a law enforcement official and ignored their orders to stop, odds are very good you'd be shot. And your family would definitely be questions during the ensuing investigation.

ahtihn 4y ago
> if you tried to cross illegally in front of a law enforcement official and ignored their orders to stop, odds are very good you'd be shot. How is shooting at someone crossing a border illegally reasonable use of force? It's a nonviolent offense that doesn't harm anyone directly.
- thwayunion 4y ago
  > How By force of law, which is my point :)
LarryMullins 4y ago
Maybe the Mexican border guards would shoot you for trying to illegally enter their country. But East German border guards were shooting East Germans who were welcomed by West German guards. Pretending that this is a typical state of border affairs is gross revisionism.
- thwayunion 4y ago
  > Maybe the Mexican border guards I think there's a good chance that you'd be shot at by US law enforcement if you tried to make an end-run through a border checkpoint, regardless of which direction you're going. In fact, they might even be more aggressive in the US -> Mexico direction (because follow-and-detain is less of an option and the presumption that anyone heading that direction illegally is either smuggling or evading arrest). > But East German border guards were shooting East Germans who were welcomed by West German guards. Pretending that this is a typical state of border affairs is gross revisionism. Of course. I think the point still stands.