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> The best way to deal with this is non-compliance and there need to be technical solutions to deny such attempts. I disagree. While these are good to have, t

> The best way to deal with this is non-compliance and there need to be technical solutions to deny such attempts. I disagree. While these are good to have, they are not enough. The reason is always the same: if you are found to be using the circumventing tech., you'll likely be in breach of the law, which will give the goons a legitimate reason to come and harass you. In a civilized country, that can translate into a fine, community service, etc... In the borderlands, it'll land you in jail or worse.

carlosjobim 4y ago
The goons will come and harass you if you are inconvenient or a threat to the ruling class, even if you are complying with all existing regulations. This happens in every country and region. For the common man non-compliance is the only non-violent way to preserve his rights or exercise freedom. You can do it successfully if you are smart and agile.
- olddustytrail 4y ago
  No it doesn't happen in every country and region. In many places there's no such thing as a "ruling class". Politicians are just another type of public sector worker and certainly not the best paid or wealthiest.
  - chopin 4y ago
    Where would that be? I live in Europe and I don't think there is a country where politicians aren't corrupt.
    - t0bia_s 4y ago
      As European living in country with highest inflation rate I must agree. What annoys me a lot is a trending narration about blaming Putin for everything. Ministry of interior has leaked manuals where is writen guide for public relations about it. Basically it says that media need to blame Putin for hungry and problems with food supply chain. https://www.mvcr.cz/soubor/krit-memo-putin-hlad-komunikacni-doporuceni-pdf.aspx https://www.mvcr.cz/soubor/krit-memo-putin-hlad-komunikacni-... If you search for articles, they are writen following this guide exactly. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=putin+a+hlad https://duckduckgo.com/?q=putin+a+hlad
  - seanw444 4y ago
    In a perfect world.
alphazard 4y ago
It's much easier for people to resist by using "forbidden" systems in private, than to affect political change. In the context of the EU, other rights afforded to citizens make things like this hard to enforce.
Seattle3503 4y ago
Sometimes I think we have romanticized civil disobedience a little too much. Not because having authoritarian laws is good, but because it seems like some people would rather be heroic resistance fighters than engage dry policy work and advocacy. It would be better to never live under bad laws at all.
- ur-whale 4y ago
  >some people would rather be heroic resistance fighters than engage dry policy work and advocacy This is a nice take, that would be the right one if you operated in a fair system. But if you have ever engaged in the very dirty game of trying to change or remove a bad law (bad for whatever reason), you soon learn how very dirty the game is. Extremely few people who play that game are in it for the betterment of society as a whole rather than the betterment of their own destiny and that of their friends. And even if they started out that way, it never lasts. Human nature. Want to change policy? Quid pro quo. Read all about it, and be ready to do nothing but.
- irusensei 4y ago
  > people would rather be heroic resistance fighters than engage dry policy work and advocacy Isn't it tiring? I mean you can raise hell and get some picture but you know one or 4 years from now they will try the same bullshit with a different name until it works. You are wasting your time and energy on activism while there are crooks literally getting paid (by your money) to degrade your life. I think that time and energy should be best spent building things which are immune to power abuse.
  - sebastianz 4y ago
    > I think that time and energy should be best spent building things which are immune to power abuse. I'm not sure such a thing exists. What technologies built by humans do you know of that are immune to power abuse?
    - irusensei 4y ago
      Cryptography
userbinator 4y ago
The reason is always the same: if you are found to be using the circumventing tech., you'll likely be in breach of the law, which will give the goons a legitimate reason to come and harass you. Not if almost everyone does it at once.
- johngladtj 4y ago
  Then it lets them crack down on anyone they find inconvenient. Omnicriminalization is not a good thing for the rule of law, much less for opponents of the people in charge

carlosjobim 4y ago

The goons will come and harass you if you are inconvenient or a threat to the ruling class, even if you are complying with all existing regulations. This happens in every country and region. For the common man non-compliance is the only non-violent way to preserve his rights or exercise freedom. You can do it successfully if you are smart and agile.

olddustytrail 4y ago
No it doesn't happen in every country and region. In many places there's no such thing as a "ruling class". Politicians are just another type of public sector worker and certainly not the best paid or wealthiest.
- chopin 4y ago
  Where would that be? I live in Europe and I don't think there is a country where politicians aren't corrupt.
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    As European living in country with highest inflation rate I must agree. What annoys me a lot is a trending narration about blaming Putin for everything. Ministry of interior has leaked manuals where is writen guide for public relations about it. Basically it says that media need to blame Putin for hungry and problems with food supply chain. https://www.mvcr.cz/soubor/krit-memo-putin-hlad-komunikacni-doporuceni-pdf.aspx https://www.mvcr.cz/soubor/krit-memo-putin-hlad-komunikacni-... If you search for articles, they are writen following this guide exactly. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=putin+a+hlad https://duckduckgo.com/?q=putin+a+hlad
- seanw444 4y ago
  In a perfect world.

alphazard 4y ago

It's much easier for people to resist by using "forbidden" systems in private, than to affect political change. In the context of the EU, other rights afforded to citizens make things like this hard to enforce.

Seattle3503 4y ago

Sometimes I think we have romanticized civil disobedience a little too much. Not because having authoritarian laws is good, but because it seems like some people would rather be heroic resistance fighters than engage dry policy work and advocacy. It would be better to never live under bad laws at all.

ur-whale 4y ago
>some people would rather be heroic resistance fighters than engage dry policy work and advocacy This is a nice take, that would be the right one if you operated in a fair system. But if you have ever engaged in the very dirty game of trying to change or remove a bad law (bad for whatever reason), you soon learn how very dirty the game is. Extremely few people who play that game are in it for the betterment of society as a whole rather than the betterment of their own destiny and that of their friends. And even if they started out that way, it never lasts. Human nature. Want to change policy? Quid pro quo. Read all about it, and be ready to do nothing but.
irusensei 4y ago
> people would rather be heroic resistance fighters than engage dry policy work and advocacy Isn't it tiring? I mean you can raise hell and get some picture but you know one or 4 years from now they will try the same bullshit with a different name until it works. You are wasting your time and energy on activism while there are crooks literally getting paid (by your money) to degrade your life. I think that time and energy should be best spent building things which are immune to power abuse.
- sebastianz 4y ago
  > I think that time and energy should be best spent building things which are immune to power abuse. I'm not sure such a thing exists. What technologies built by humans do you know of that are immune to power abuse?
  - irusensei 4y ago
    Cryptography

userbinator 4y ago

The reason is always the same: if you are found to be using the circumventing tech., you'll likely be in breach of the law, which will give the goons a legitimate reason to come and harass you. Not if almost everyone does it at once.

johngladtj 4y ago
Then it lets them crack down on anyone they find inconvenient. Omnicriminalization is not a good thing for the rule of law, much less for opponents of the people in charge