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>> With this line of reasoning, no one does or decides anything. We are all simply running out the simulation that was predetermined long before we were born. E

by mbfg 4y ago

>> With this line of reasoning, no one does or decides anything. We are all simply running out the simulation that was predetermined long before we were born. Even if this is true, it's not exactly useful. I don't see any reason to believe what you say is wrong. Is there evidence we have free will? It's hard to find in physics. Could i have done differently that what i did? I don't think so. I don't control my thoughts, i don't think them before i think them. I'm not sure how i could do differently.

LoganDark 4y ago
I personally choose to believe that "free will" is actually just a desire to do what you want, and exercise change for that purpose. Maybe that was predetermined by the simulation (as all things are), but people have varying degrees of willingness to reach for their desires, especially if they would have to proactively create change in their lives in order to do so. Even if everything you do was predetermined by the simulation... the simulation is simulating you, so even inside it, you will do what you would have done otherwise. -Emily
- haswell 4y ago
  What is desire, and where does it come from?
  - LoganDark 4y ago
    Desire is chemicals in the brain, I think. I would say the following argument proves too much: if desire is worthless because it's part of the simulation, and therefore any impression of "free will" is not even free because your ability to express said "free will" was decided upon by the simulation and not yourself... then nothing is worth anything and you have to back up (unless you want to become a nihilist). -Emily
    - mbfg 4y ago
      desire is not at all worthless, it's very important, its just that i find it hard to claim that my conscious self is the cause of that desire.
    - haswell 4y ago
      And if chemicals in the brain are responsible for creating the feeling we experience in consciousness and label desire, what is responsible for the accumulation and mixing of those chemicals? None of the line of reasoning I'm teasing at requires one to conclude that desire is worthless. Many involuntary appearances in consciousness map directly to causal factors and provide clear evolutionary benefit, e.g. pain is an early warning system that helps us avoid many kinds of death. Why would nihilism be the natural conclusion here?

by mbfg 4y ago

LoganDark 4y ago

I personally choose to believe that "free will" is actually just a desire to do what you want, and exercise change for that purpose. Maybe that was predetermined by the simulation (as all things are), but people have varying degrees of willingness to reach for their desires, especially if they would have to proactively create change in their lives in order to do so. Even if everything you do was predetermined by the simulation... the simulation is simulating you, so even inside it, you will do what you would have done otherwise. -Emily

haswell 4y ago
What is desire, and where does it come from?
- LoganDark 4y ago
  Desire is chemicals in the brain, I think. I would say the following argument proves too much: if desire is worthless because it's part of the simulation, and therefore any impression of "free will" is not even free because your ability to express said "free will" was decided upon by the simulation and not yourself... then nothing is worth anything and you have to back up (unless you want to become a nihilist). -Emily
  - mbfg 4y ago
    desire is not at all worthless, it's very important, its just that i find it hard to claim that my conscious self is the cause of that desire.
  - haswell 4y ago
    And if chemicals in the brain are responsible for creating the feeling we experience in consciousness and label desire, what is responsible for the accumulation and mixing of those chemicals? None of the line of reasoning I'm teasing at requires one to conclude that desire is worthless. Many involuntary appearances in consciousness map directly to causal factors and provide clear evolutionary benefit, e.g. pain is an early warning system that helps us avoid many kinds of death. Why would nihilism be the natural conclusion here?