5 ms·

If charging for API usage amounts to developer alienation, then why is Apple the most successful business in the world? Frankly, I don't think Musk much cares

If charging for API usage amounts to developer alienation, then why is Apple the most successful business in the world? Frankly, I don't think Musk much cares for the developers. From a business perspective, he might be right here - developers aren't the ones watching ads or paying for microtransactions, users are. The developers, at his scale, are a liability. Restricting their capabilities and profiting from their struggle is just part of the modern tech stack. I hate it as much as you do, but calling it "insane" is a hysterical double-standard that crops up just too often on HN.

rchaud 4y ago
Apple can nickel and dime developers because a good app on their ecosystem is profitable. Nobody is making enough profit via the Twitter API to make it worth staying on. Twitter is a distant #3 social network that itself has never really made money.
- kibwen 4y ago
  > Twitter is a distant #3 social network This is being too generous. Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok are all far larger than Twitter. Reddit is also just barely larger than Twitter, though at that scale you have to consider who has more bots. Twitter claims slightly more MAUs than Snapchat, but since Snapchat isn't a viral network it probably has no bots to speak of, making it larger than Twitter in terms of real users.
Finnucane 4y ago
But this comes after pulling the plug on the third-party apps without a word of warning or even acknowledging that they had done it. So those devs turned around and said, well, guess we'll go work on Mastodon apps now. Presumably there was a noticeable drop in engagement as those users cut back their time on twitter. So now twitter is like you can come back if you pay, but we can't tell you what that will cost.
rsynnott 4y ago
If the App Store had been free for 15 years and then Apple said "if you don't pay us $100 a year in one week, we'll delete your app" then you can bet that Tim Cook would be seeking new opportunities _within hours_. There's a big difference between "this has always cost something" and "this is going from free to paid with _one week's notice_".
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- conductr 4y ago
  I don't see how third party developers are additive to Twitter in the same way they're additive to Apple at all. If that's true at all, why would Twitter provide services for free? Why would Apple charge at all? (Especially from the beginning). It's a hard comparison because the value of the Apple ecosystem is so obvious and mutual. Twitter is junk on both sides; unless as a third party dev you just happened to find value in it, in which case you should pay for it. I understand this is hurting peoples feelings, but it makes complete sense to me from all angles.
  - adamauckland 4y ago
    Because Twitter makes money from advertising not selling direct to end users. I used to use Tweetbot which has now stopped working, as a result I don't use Twitter any more, the advertisers have lost one extra person to sell to.
    - conductr 4y ago
      > the advertisers have lost one extra person to sell to Which is aligned with Musk's strategy thus far, but there's also a good argument to be made that that product should have never been needed if twitter was providing a decent first party client. They should have wanted to provide that to control the advertising. Letting the third parties take that up was a poor strategy -- business-wise that is, I get that people may have liked it and have used it for a long time and are probably sad to lose it.
anigbrowl 4y ago
You don't need to pay to use Xcode, or to run apps on your own devices. If you publish to the app store I think there is a $99/year fee or something to have your app signed, plus they take 30% of your revenue. You don't absolutely need to have your code signed, I can give apps to my friends, they just get a warning about it not being signed and potentially unsafe when it's first installed.
- cercatrova 4y ago
  You need to buy a Mac to even develop these apps...
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    So? You need a computer to run any code at all. I bought a used Mac for very cheap last year, the first Apple product I've owned in ~35 years of working in and around the computer industry. I don't feel ripped off.
    - satvikpendem 4y ago
      Good for you. In other UI frameworks I don't have to buy their specific hardware just to develop for them.
- patrickmay 4y ago
  15% unless your app is hugely popular.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

rchaud 4y ago

Apple can nickel and dime developers because a good app on their ecosystem is profitable. Nobody is making enough profit via the Twitter API to make it worth staying on. Twitter is a distant #3 social network that itself has never really made money.

kibwen 4y ago
> Twitter is a distant #3 social network This is being too generous. Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok are all far larger than Twitter. Reddit is also just barely larger than Twitter, though at that scale you have to consider who has more bots. Twitter claims slightly more MAUs than Snapchat, but since Snapchat isn't a viral network it probably has no bots to speak of, making it larger than Twitter in terms of real users.

Finnucane 4y ago

But this comes after pulling the plug on the third-party apps without a word of warning or even acknowledging that they had done it. So those devs turned around and said, well, guess we'll go work on Mastodon apps now. Presumably there was a noticeable drop in engagement as those users cut back their time on twitter. So now twitter is like you can come back if you pay, but we can't tell you what that will cost.

rsynnott 4y ago

If the App Store had been free for 15 years and then Apple said "if you don't pay us $100 a year in one week, we'll delete your app" then you can bet that Tim Cook would be seeking new opportunities _within hours_. There's a big difference between "this has always cost something" and "this is going from free to paid with _one week's notice_".

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
conductr 4y ago
I don't see how third party developers are additive to Twitter in the same way they're additive to Apple at all. If that's true at all, why would Twitter provide services for free? Why would Apple charge at all? (Especially from the beginning). It's a hard comparison because the value of the Apple ecosystem is so obvious and mutual. Twitter is junk on both sides; unless as a third party dev you just happened to find value in it, in which case you should pay for it. I understand this is hurting peoples feelings, but it makes complete sense to me from all angles.
- adamauckland 4y ago
  Because Twitter makes money from advertising not selling direct to end users. I used to use Tweetbot which has now stopped working, as a result I don't use Twitter any more, the advertisers have lost one extra person to sell to.
  - conductr 4y ago
    > the advertisers have lost one extra person to sell to Which is aligned with Musk's strategy thus far, but there's also a good argument to be made that that product should have never been needed if twitter was providing a decent first party client. They should have wanted to provide that to control the advertising. Letting the third parties take that up was a poor strategy -- business-wise that is, I get that people may have liked it and have used it for a long time and are probably sad to lose it.

anigbrowl 4y ago

You don't need to pay to use Xcode, or to run apps on your own devices. If you publish to the app store I think there is a $99/year fee or something to have your app signed, plus they take 30% of your revenue. You don't absolutely need to have your code signed, I can give apps to my friends, they just get a warning about it not being signed and potentially unsafe when it's first installed.

cercatrova 4y ago
You need to buy a Mac to even develop these apps...
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  So? You need a computer to run any code at all. I bought a used Mac for very cheap last year, the first Apple product I've owned in ~35 years of working in and around the computer industry. I don't feel ripped off.
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    Good for you. In other UI frameworks I don't have to buy their specific hardware just to develop for them.
patrickmay 4y ago
15% unless your app is hugely popular.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]