4 ms·

If you’re curious about how this sort of brain stimulation works, I just published a fun little explainer in PLOS Biology. https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog

If you’re curious about how this sort of brain stimulation works, I just published a fun little explainer in PLOS Biology. https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3001973 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...

58x14 4y ago
Thank you for this! I’m reading now and you strike a nice balance (for me at least) between simple explanations and deeper science. Do you have any suggested introductory reading material for those interested in neuroscience? More detailed and technical than pop science-esq, without requiring subject matter expertise?
- mattkrause 4y ago
  Thanks-that's what we were aiming for! Are you interested in anything specific? Neuroscience is an absolutely massive field. At one end of my department, some folks are poking at the atomic structure of individual ion channels; at the other, people are looking at how social factors affect the brain and vice versa. It's hard to think of any one book that does it all justice. On the other hand, there's been a flood of interesting books lately, so there's almost certainly something for you. Since you're on HN, you might like Grace Lindsay's Models of the Mind. It's about using math and physics to probe the brain, but it's a nice light read that focuses on analogies; no walls of impenetrable equations. If you like this, there are a ton of books that dive more deeply into the math to read next. I've heard good things about Luiz Pessoa's The Entangled Brain, but haven't read it. It's more general neuroscience than focused on applications of math. People love Gyorgy Buzsaki's books Rhythms of the Brain and The Brain from Inside Out. I couldn't really get into them, in part because he was--loudly--wrong about the brain stim stuff in that article--but that's more of a personal beef. If you want something more like a textbook, the standard is Kandel's Principles of Neural Science. It touches on almost everything, though often not in a particularly exciting or up-to-date way. It's not the worst book for a class, but it'd be a slog to power through in bed. Instead, I'd recommend Levitan and Kaczmarek's The Neuron: Cell and Molecular Biology. It covers a bit less (individual cells up through small neural networks), but I like the writing a lot more. Another approach might be some hybrid science-biographies. These include Lessons from the Lobster, which is about Eve Marder and her work. The lobster stomach is a really fascinating circuit: seemingly simple, but capable of really complex behavior. The principles she worked out there have huge implications for more complex brains (like ours). Similarly, Brain and Visual Perception is about how David Hubel and Torsten Wiesel worked out some of the circuits in primary visual cortex--and won the Nobel Prize. I have not read Jill Bolte Taylor's My Stroke of Insight, but people seem to like it. It's about a brain anatomist realizing that she's having a stroke. Oliver Sacks' books are probably the standard bearer in this category. Some of the explanations are a bit dated, especially in The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat (understandable, as it's from 1985), but the descriptions of the symptoms are fascinating. Some anti-recommendations: I'd avoid Rodger Penrose's The Emperor's New Mind. It did get me interested in moving from CS to Neuro, but its explanations are, to put it EXTREMELY charitably, not very mainstream. Jeff Hawkin's book is not nearly as far out there, but his ideas also don't have a lot of traction. Stephen Grossberg's stuff is very polarizing: some ideas are very interesting, but also sometimes presented in ways that don't tie in well with the rest of the field, so I wouldn't start there. That's a random walk through my reading list! If you're interested in a particular niche, let me know. There's also cool stuff about drugs, weird animals, sensation, etc...
  - FriendWithMoon 4y ago
    In your experience, do you think there will be future applications for Tinnitus?
    - mattkrause 4y ago
      A handful of trials have looked at this, and some have found pretty good results. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=Tinnitus&term=tES&intr=&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=&Search=Search https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=Tinnitus&term=tE... There's more to do before it's a routine treatment, but there may be something there. Until recently, I think most people have been trying to enhance weak activity with stimulation, but some of our data suggest it's easier to break up pathological activity, which I think is the issue with tinnitus.
throwaway4aday 4y ago
What's your opinion on consumer devices like this for tDCS? https://caputron.com/products/brain-premier?variant=42105224888551 https://caputron.com/products/brain-premier?variant=42105224...
- mattkrause 4y ago
  The simulator itself is fairly simple. At its core, it's just a constant-current source. Make sure that it's safe: isolated from the mains, delivers the right amount of current, and ideally has some cut-offs in case the electrodes come loose (you don't want it to keep upping the voltage if there's a marginal connection). The bigger question is what you want to use it for. I think we've got a ways to go before we have "fire-and-forget" procedure work for everybody. Depending on where/how/when you stimulate, it's sometimes possible to produce the exact opposite of your intended effect. One of the headsets marketed for improving gaming had a big dust-up over that.
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    I was considering using it a few times a week to see if there was any lasting improvement in focus. I've used one before years ago that a friend let me try for a few sessions and my subjective experience was that it had some fairly long lasting positive effects, could've been placebo but I figure it's worth giving it another shot.
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    Thanks for the info, it looks like this device does have an auto-off feature for when the electrodes aren't in good contact and it is battery powered so no mains connection. Also has a ramp up and ramp down for current at the beginning and end.

58x14 4y ago

Thank you for this! I’m reading now and you strike a nice balance (for me at least) between simple explanations and deeper science. Do you have any suggested introductory reading material for those interested in neuroscience? More detailed and technical than pop science-esq, without requiring subject matter expertise?

mattkrause 4y ago
Thanks-that's what we were aiming for! Are you interested in anything specific? Neuroscience is an absolutely massive field. At one end of my department, some folks are poking at the atomic structure of individual ion channels; at the other, people are looking at how social factors affect the brain and vice versa. It's hard to think of any one book that does it all justice. On the other hand, there's been a flood of interesting books lately, so there's almost certainly something for you. Since you're on HN, you might like Grace Lindsay's Models of the Mind. It's about using math and physics to probe the brain, but it's a nice light read that focuses on analogies; no walls of impenetrable equations. If you like this, there are a ton of books that dive more deeply into the math to read next. I've heard good things about Luiz Pessoa's The Entangled Brain, but haven't read it. It's more general neuroscience than focused on applications of math. People love Gyorgy Buzsaki's books Rhythms of the Brain and The Brain from Inside Out. I couldn't really get into them, in part because he was--loudly--wrong about the brain stim stuff in that article--but that's more of a personal beef. If you want something more like a textbook, the standard is Kandel's Principles of Neural Science. It touches on almost everything, though often not in a particularly exciting or up-to-date way. It's not the worst book for a class, but it'd be a slog to power through in bed. Instead, I'd recommend Levitan and Kaczmarek's The Neuron: Cell and Molecular Biology. It covers a bit less (individual cells up through small neural networks), but I like the writing a lot more. Another approach might be some hybrid science-biographies. These include Lessons from the Lobster, which is about Eve Marder and her work. The lobster stomach is a really fascinating circuit: seemingly simple, but capable of really complex behavior. The principles she worked out there have huge implications for more complex brains (like ours). Similarly, Brain and Visual Perception is about how David Hubel and Torsten Wiesel worked out some of the circuits in primary visual cortex--and won the Nobel Prize. I have not read Jill Bolte Taylor's My Stroke of Insight, but people seem to like it. It's about a brain anatomist realizing that she's having a stroke. Oliver Sacks' books are probably the standard bearer in this category. Some of the explanations are a bit dated, especially in The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat (understandable, as it's from 1985), but the descriptions of the symptoms are fascinating. Some anti-recommendations: I'd avoid Rodger Penrose's The Emperor's New Mind. It did get me interested in moving from CS to Neuro, but its explanations are, to put it EXTREMELY charitably, not very mainstream. Jeff Hawkin's book is not nearly as far out there, but his ideas also don't have a lot of traction. Stephen Grossberg's stuff is very polarizing: some ideas are very interesting, but also sometimes presented in ways that don't tie in well with the rest of the field, so I wouldn't start there. That's a random walk through my reading list! If you're interested in a particular niche, let me know. There's also cool stuff about drugs, weird animals, sensation, etc...
- FriendWithMoon 4y ago
  In your experience, do you think there will be future applications for Tinnitus?
  - mattkrause 4y ago
    A handful of trials have looked at this, and some have found pretty good results. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=Tinnitus&term=tES&intr=&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=&Search=Search https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=Tinnitus&term=tE... There's more to do before it's a routine treatment, but there may be something there. Until recently, I think most people have been trying to enhance weak activity with stimulation, but some of our data suggest it's easier to break up pathological activity, which I think is the issue with tinnitus.

throwaway4aday 4y ago

What's your opinion on consumer devices like this for tDCS? https://caputron.com/products/brain-premier?variant=42105224888551 https://caputron.com/products/brain-premier?variant=42105224...

mattkrause 4y ago
The simulator itself is fairly simple. At its core, it's just a constant-current source. Make sure that it's safe: isolated from the mains, delivers the right amount of current, and ideally has some cut-offs in case the electrodes come loose (you don't want it to keep upping the voltage if there's a marginal connection). The bigger question is what you want to use it for. I think we've got a ways to go before we have "fire-and-forget" procedure work for everybody. Depending on where/how/when you stimulate, it's sometimes possible to produce the exact opposite of your intended effect. One of the headsets marketed for improving gaming had a big dust-up over that.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  I was considering using it a few times a week to see if there was any lasting improvement in focus. I've used one before years ago that a friend let me try for a few sessions and my subjective experience was that it had some fairly long lasting positive effects, could've been placebo but I figure it's worth giving it another shot.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  Thanks for the info, it looks like this device does have an auto-off feature for when the electrodes aren't in good contact and it is battery powered so no mains connection. Also has a ramp up and ramp down for current at the beginning and end.