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I think with this American police stuff, a lot of people are missing a simple truth. >This is just the "not all cops" with more words. Where are the good cops?

I think with this American police stuff, a lot of people are missing a simple truth. >This is just the "not all cops" with more words. Where are the good cops? They're not in the same police departments as the bad cops. This is what people miss. The good cops you don't hear about, because they don't have a lot of problems. Instead, you hear about the bad cops in departments like the LAPD and NYPD (and many other much smaller departments). The good ones don't make the news, but the bad ones usually make the news multiple times. >They aren't speaking out. If they do such things, they get fired. Exactly. So the bad cops tend to congregate together into bad departments. It's exactly like the rotting apple trope people keep misusing and not understanding. The bad apple makes the whole barrel rot quickly. So if you see a department with a few bad cops, most likely they're ALL bad. The good departments get rid of the bad cops before they ruin the place. This isn't to say that most departments are good, or bad; I really don't know. But I do believe there's good cops out there, but they're not in the same departments as those shitty cops that are in police gangs like you mention.

cycomanic 4y ago
By that theory you'd still expect some bad cop to occasionally end up at a good department. So if the other cops at the department are really good cops, they would charge the bad cop very quickly for doing something. I would imagine that to make at least local news (I mean we just read that cops saving ducks is making lots of news). Why do we not see any of those reports. One way to identify good departments should be police union membership. Considering the crucial role police unions play in protecting bad cops, good departments should have near zero membership, are there such departments?
- midoridensha 4y ago
  I'm guessing that in well-run departments, bad cops tend to get pushed out quickly, before they do something really bad that's worthy of news coverage (plus, they probably have better hiring practices to try to identify who's a good "cultural fit"). Plus, departments probably try to avoid media coverage of anything that makes them look bad, just like any organization. Police unions nationwide are probably a net negative I'd agree, but claiming that good departments wouldn't have any union at all seems a big extreme. Public service employee unions are pretty normal in the US.
- pydry 4y ago
  https://thecrimereport.org/2020/06/18/the-plight-of-the-police-whistleblower/ https://thecrimereport.org/2020/06/18/the-plight-of-the-poli... We do, sometimes. Instead of getting the presidential medal of freedom like they deserve they are forced to suffer. The system is broken from the top, can only be fixed from the top and those on top are pretty content with the status quo. Setting up the DHS after 9/11 was dumb but setting up a new department answerable only to the president to police the police would fix the problem.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >Setting up the DHS after 9/11 was dumb but setting up a new department answerable only to the president to police the police would fix the problem. No, it wouldn't: what happens when someone like Trump gets elected? Now the police nationwide are basically just like the SA.
    - pydry 4y ago
      If the department was tasked solely with policing the police then Trump would likely just have tried to water it down and render it toothless exactly like he did with the EPA. I dont see an intrinsic problem with its existence.
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  > Why do we not see any of those reports. Because the bad cop goes to jail and now he's no longer in the department, so the department falls out of the news cycle. I'm not sure what else you'd expect... Here's a possible example of a couple bad cops in what could be a good department: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/officer-jailed-assault-woman-dementia-b2073096.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/offi...
  - ilostmyshoes 4y ago
    The "bad department" is the US when you compare it against the rest of the planet https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/
seunosewa 4y ago
So the US doesn't only have bad cops, it has bad police departments. The rot starts from the top, then?
- midoridensha 4y ago
  While there's definitely cultural problems in the US that could lead to more bad departments, the US is a highly decentralized country with a lot of control at the local levels. I think this tends to lead to a lot more corruption at local levels (in some places much more than others), and accordingly more bad departments.
- pjc50 4y ago
  The US lacks a national police inspectorate, or similar body that could reliably investigate crimes committed by police from the outside. Police are left to police themselves.
petesergeant 4y ago
> you hear about the bad cops in departments like the LAPD and NYPD New York (state) police kill about 1/3 of the median, California just a little under the median[0]. I imagine those numbers are higher for the two cities you've mentioned than state-wide. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123317/rate-people-killed-police-us-state-population/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123317/rate-people-kill...
- midoridensha 4y ago
  Again, see my parallel comment about how decentralized America is and how much power is retained at local levels. The NYPD may be in New York, but it doesn't represent New York state. Also, killings aren't a great way of comparing departments necessarily. There's a lot of corruption in the NYPD, but that doesn't necessarily translate to killings. Just look at their former "stop and frisk" policy; it was a violation of rights and racist, but didn't result in many killings that I remember.

cycomanic 4y ago

By that theory you'd still expect some bad cop to occasionally end up at a good department. So if the other cops at the department are really good cops, they would charge the bad cop very quickly for doing something. I would imagine that to make at least local news (I mean we just read that cops saving ducks is making lots of news). Why do we not see any of those reports. One way to identify good departments should be police union membership. Considering the crucial role police unions play in protecting bad cops, good departments should have near zero membership, are there such departments?

midoridensha 4y ago
I'm guessing that in well-run departments, bad cops tend to get pushed out quickly, before they do something really bad that's worthy of news coverage (plus, they probably have better hiring practices to try to identify who's a good "cultural fit"). Plus, departments probably try to avoid media coverage of anything that makes them look bad, just like any organization. Police unions nationwide are probably a net negative I'd agree, but claiming that good departments wouldn't have any union at all seems a big extreme. Public service employee unions are pretty normal in the US.
pydry 4y ago
https://thecrimereport.org/2020/06/18/the-plight-of-the-police-whistleblower/ https://thecrimereport.org/2020/06/18/the-plight-of-the-poli... We do, sometimes. Instead of getting the presidential medal of freedom like they deserve they are forced to suffer. The system is broken from the top, can only be fixed from the top and those on top are pretty content with the status quo. Setting up the DHS after 9/11 was dumb but setting up a new department answerable only to the president to police the police would fix the problem.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >Setting up the DHS after 9/11 was dumb but setting up a new department answerable only to the president to police the police would fix the problem. No, it wouldn't: what happens when someone like Trump gets elected? Now the police nationwide are basically just like the SA.
  - pydry 4y ago
    If the department was tasked solely with policing the police then Trump would likely just have tried to water it down and render it toothless exactly like he did with the EPA. I dont see an intrinsic problem with its existence.
puffoflogic 4y ago
> Why do we not see any of those reports. Because the bad cop goes to jail and now he's no longer in the department, so the department falls out of the news cycle. I'm not sure what else you'd expect... Here's a possible example of a couple bad cops in what could be a good department: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/officer-jailed-assault-woman-dementia-b2073096.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/offi...
- ilostmyshoes 4y ago
  The "bad department" is the US when you compare it against the rest of the planet https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/

seunosewa 4y ago

So the US doesn't only have bad cops, it has bad police departments. The rot starts from the top, then?

midoridensha 4y ago
While there's definitely cultural problems in the US that could lead to more bad departments, the US is a highly decentralized country with a lot of control at the local levels. I think this tends to lead to a lot more corruption at local levels (in some places much more than others), and accordingly more bad departments.
pjc50 4y ago
The US lacks a national police inspectorate, or similar body that could reliably investigate crimes committed by police from the outside. Police are left to police themselves.

petesergeant 4y ago

> you hear about the bad cops in departments like the LAPD and NYPD New York (state) police kill about 1/3 of the median, California just a little under the median[0]. I imagine those numbers are higher for the two cities you've mentioned than state-wide. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123317/rate-people-killed-police-us-state-population/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123317/rate-people-kill...

midoridensha 4y ago
Again, see my parallel comment about how decentralized America is and how much power is retained at local levels. The NYPD may be in New York, but it doesn't represent New York state. Also, killings aren't a great way of comparing departments necessarily. There's a lot of corruption in the NYPD, but that doesn't necessarily translate to killings. Just look at their former "stop and frisk" policy; it was a violation of rights and racist, but didn't result in many killings that I remember.