5 ms·

"> I find myself imaging what it would be like if my husband and I retire to Germany." I think in case she has dual citizenship, she still has to pay into Germ

by knbknb 4y ago

"> I find myself imaging what it would be like if my husband and I retire to Germany." I think in case she has dual citizenship, she still has to pay into German social security. These payments are mandatory and contributions are accrued over a lifetime. I think The minimum fee is about 150 Euros per month and family (even as an "inactive" citizen). Maybe she can refuse to pay ("Hey, I've moved back to the UK / never moved to Germany"), but this also means almost? no pension payments later, and she can expect trouble when paying invoices for any German doctor or hospital. Of course she can live off her wealth (gained in the UK) as a Pensioner in Germany but I think when she never contributed to German Social Security she cannot expect much. In this respect, Bookkeeping by German authorities is very accurate, over decades, to the penny.

peterpost2 4y ago
This is less of a problem for UK citizens, since the statepension is pretty bad. Most people Here pit money in a pensionfund, e.g for me my pension is about 90% from my pension fund and the state part is just an extra(not that I expect i will ever receive it).
RektBoy 4y ago
> and she can expect trouble when paying invoices for any German doctor or hospital. What? Your social security is linked to your health insurance, how? Doesn't make sense.
- hef19898 4y ago
  It is not directly linked. Both are linked to employment (sozialversicherungspflichtig, what atrue German word) which gives you health insurance, social security, unemployment and retirement. Lower salary ranges give you health insurance, but sometimes not unemployment or social security (not sure about the latter without looking it up), while freelancing or being a GM at a company (your own or someone elses) can come without retirement or unemoloyment benefits. Except some extreme edge cases, there is no way to be not health insured in Germany. There are multiple ways to not have unemployment, social security or retirement benefits. The prudent path here is to either contribute voluntarily (expensive with the exception of unemployment) or pick privtar alternatives. None of that so is connected to citizenship so.
Nitrolo 4y ago
I'd assume she'd still receive her UK pension, right? Depending on the exchange rate and possible tax implications it may end up being less than it would be back in the UK, but having contributed to a pension scheme she'll still presumably get something back, just not from the German system.
hef19898 4y ago
Pensions and social security, as wrll as health insurance, have nothing to do with citizenship. The key is emoloyment (or voluntary contributions) when working in Germany. That applies to every EU citizen (usually no working visa required) and people working in Germany with working visas. Obviously, it is more benfitial to gather pension in a high cost and salary country (e.g. Germany) and retire to a low cost country. No idea how UK pensions compare to German ones. One health insurance benefit German citizenship gives you, is the option to keep German health insurance, also covering health care abroad, as an expat for up to 5 (?, might be ten) for close to nothing. For some funny reason doing so while based in the US is considerably more expensive than the rest of the world...
- mousetree 4y ago
  This is true. I became a dual German citizen 15 years ago and paid no tax or social security contributions. I only started paying those once I moved to Germany and started working here a few years ago
MandieD 4y ago
German doctors and hospitals will cheerfully bill you directly, no insurance necessary. They would be hesitant to schedule you for a very expensive procedure without an insurance card, but I just had surgery to insert and later remove pins to heal a broken finger as a "Selbstzahler" (self-payer), because I'm privately insured. This means that they simply sent me the bills, totaling about 1000 EUR, I paid them out of my checking account, and it's my own problem to get re-imbursed from my insurer. I think they checked my ID to make sure the billing address was legit. Edited to add: I am merely a permanent resident of Germany, not a dual citizen.
- hef19898 4y ago
  And if a resident, you can easily get public health insurance (if you choose to, private insurance sure has its upsides).
  - MandieD 4y ago
    I was a weird edge case, so had to get private: at the time of my residence permit application, I was a resident of a country that did not have compulsory health insurance (pre-ACA USA), married to a German with private insurance, and not yet employed (and no immediate prospects). I had to have German health insurance to get the residence permit, so private it was.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      That makes sense. One has to love all those edge cases, right? I always choose to stick with public health care, even if I am elibible for private insurance for years now. There are reasons for that so, not the least some nasty past medical issues public insurers don't care about but private ones would at least increade premiums over. The fun thing with private insurance so is that you see the invoices and amounts. Always puzzles me when I see those from my Dad... Private insurance is great if you get it young enough, and without pre existing stuff, and get good conditions concerning premium increases with age.
      - 4y ago

by knbknb 4y ago

peterpost2 4y ago

This is less of a problem for UK citizens, since the statepension is pretty bad. Most people Here pit money in a pensionfund, e.g for me my pension is about 90% from my pension fund and the state part is just an extra(not that I expect i will ever receive it).

RektBoy 4y ago

> and she can expect trouble when paying invoices for any German doctor or hospital. What? Your social security is linked to your health insurance, how? Doesn't make sense.

hef19898 4y ago
It is not directly linked. Both are linked to employment (sozialversicherungspflichtig, what atrue German word) which gives you health insurance, social security, unemployment and retirement. Lower salary ranges give you health insurance, but sometimes not unemployment or social security (not sure about the latter without looking it up), while freelancing or being a GM at a company (your own or someone elses) can come without retirement or unemoloyment benefits. Except some extreme edge cases, there is no way to be not health insured in Germany. There are multiple ways to not have unemployment, social security or retirement benefits. The prudent path here is to either contribute voluntarily (expensive with the exception of unemployment) or pick privtar alternatives. None of that so is connected to citizenship so.

Nitrolo 4y ago

I'd assume she'd still receive her UK pension, right? Depending on the exchange rate and possible tax implications it may end up being less than it would be back in the UK, but having contributed to a pension scheme she'll still presumably get something back, just not from the German system.

hef19898 4y ago

Pensions and social security, as wrll as health insurance, have nothing to do with citizenship. The key is emoloyment (or voluntary contributions) when working in Germany. That applies to every EU citizen (usually no working visa required) and people working in Germany with working visas. Obviously, it is more benfitial to gather pension in a high cost and salary country (e.g. Germany) and retire to a low cost country. No idea how UK pensions compare to German ones. One health insurance benefit German citizenship gives you, is the option to keep German health insurance, also covering health care abroad, as an expat for up to 5 (?, might be ten) for close to nothing. For some funny reason doing so while based in the US is considerably more expensive than the rest of the world...

mousetree 4y ago
This is true. I became a dual German citizen 15 years ago and paid no tax or social security contributions. I only started paying those once I moved to Germany and started working here a few years ago

MandieD 4y ago

German doctors and hospitals will cheerfully bill you directly, no insurance necessary. They would be hesitant to schedule you for a very expensive procedure without an insurance card, but I just had surgery to insert and later remove pins to heal a broken finger as a "Selbstzahler" (self-payer), because I'm privately insured. This means that they simply sent me the bills, totaling about 1000 EUR, I paid them out of my checking account, and it's my own problem to get re-imbursed from my insurer. I think they checked my ID to make sure the billing address was legit. Edited to add: I am merely a permanent resident of Germany, not a dual citizen.

hef19898 4y ago
And if a resident, you can easily get public health insurance (if you choose to, private insurance sure has its upsides).
- MandieD 4y ago
  I was a weird edge case, so had to get private: at the time of my residence permit application, I was a resident of a country that did not have compulsory health insurance (pre-ACA USA), married to a German with private insurance, and not yet employed (and no immediate prospects). I had to have German health insurance to get the residence permit, so private it was.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    That makes sense. One has to love all those edge cases, right? I always choose to stick with public health care, even if I am elibible for private insurance for years now. There are reasons for that so, not the least some nasty past medical issues public insurers don't care about but private ones would at least increade premiums over. The fun thing with private insurance so is that you see the invoices and amounts. Always puzzles me when I see those from my Dad... Private insurance is great if you get it young enough, and without pre existing stuff, and get good conditions concerning premium increases with age.
    - 4y ago