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As a daily Anki user, I am highly skeptical of this idea. The careful creation of new cards is one of the key parts in learning the material. It promotes a crit

As a daily Anki user, I am highly skeptical of this idea. The careful creation of new cards is one of the key parts in learning the material. It promotes a critical thinking step where you have to distill the material down into small but important pieces and (if you want to do it well) forces you to evaluate if you have actually understood what you wrote down. I suspect that forgoing this step will not lead to understanding, but to rote memorization of trivia. Which is fine if that's your goal, but it leaves most of the potential of spaced repetition on the table.

iotku 4y ago
Yep, a large aspect of flashcards when studying or the occasions when in college they allow you to bring notes to exams involves the aspect of personally curating the material and thinking about it during the process. Perhaps the gpt can find truly useful information, but if you don't know why it's useful you're just filling up your memory with material you don't know how to utilize well.
rjh29 4y ago
It's a classic beginner mistake to load up a 20000 word deck and start learning it when you have no relationship or connection to the cards. Create a card when you first see the word in real life, with that example sentence on the back, and it's so much easier to remember. At least for me anyway.
- grandpoobah 4y ago
  Those large word decks can be useful though. Download deck, immediately suspend all cards, and then start un-suspending cards as you learn the words. I also add notes to the cards as I go. I have a similar strategy for the Ultimate Geography deck. I want to know where every country is on a map, as well as their capitol and flag. So I suspended all cards, and then periodically enable 20 new ones, and learn as I go. That often means googling the location or pronunciation the first time I encounter the card. (I use the low-key Anki configuration with Pass/Fail buttons plugin)
  - rjh29 4y ago
    Everyone's different, but the act of creating the card itself helps motivate me to learn it. I really enjoy having a hand-curated deck. Though I can see larger decks being useful if the card is annoying to make (like your geography example).
- johtso 4y ago
  The opposite theory is that getting _some_ exposure to the information, even if you can't actively recall it, is still valuable. When you encounter that information in the wild, your brain then has an existing pathway to strengthen.
- now__what 4y ago
  How do you find the time/energy to get the example sentence on the back of each card? Do you have a process/method to make it easier? When I encounter new words in real life, it tends to be all at once (i.e. watching a show while making dinner). I scribble the word quickly on a nearby notepad and don't have time to look at it again until I'm bulk-uploading new words later. It bothers me that I'm maybe not getting the full benefit of Anki, because I'm missing the context and/or example sentences. I would love to hear ideas about how to resolve that timing issue. I seem to retain more from those 20k word decks you mentioned than my personal decks, likely because they come with example sentences and context that my personal decks are missing.
JamesBarney 4y ago
I agree that generating your own content is better for learning material. But disagree the effect is so large as to nullify any benefits of training. If you have not drilling material on one end, and writing your own questions on the other. I think drilling gpt generated questions is probably closer to the latter than the former.
JonathanFly 4y ago
Totally agree. But I'm tempted solve this by adding MORE AI. Have the tool prompt GPT to quiz you about the new card, or force you to use a new language vocabulary word a bunch of times. Maybe even argue against you adding the card and try to convince it it's worthwhile information. USER: Add a new Anki card for, "It is important to set a high standard from day one." GPT: That seems like generic advice. Of course high standards are better than low standards in a vacuum, but everything has a cost. Being too rigid in setting high standards may limit the business's flexibility to adapt to changing market conditions, customer needs, and technological advancements. Are you sure high standards are that important? (That criticism actually generated with GPT, using the example the author of the tool Tweeted.)
DecayingOrganic 4y ago
Anki's key benefits stem from its utilization of two highly supported and extensively researched pedagogical strategies: (1) retrieval practice and (2) spaced repetition. In contrast, the practice of note-taking, which essentially entails summarizing information in one's own words, has been found to have 'low utility' in academic literature. [0] [0]: https://sci-hub.ru/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26173288/ https://sci-hub.ru/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26173288/
- JonathanFly 4y ago
  According to some people (Justin Sung on YouTube is where I heard it, probably, so no idea if credible) you can influence the forgetting-curve and make Anki more effective by having more context, putting knowledge into relationships with other knowledge, etc. It's a multiplier on raw/rote space repetition.
  - O__________O 4y ago
    Really depends on how you’re defining context, since to me there’s concepts like memory chains/ladders, which simply fit sequential memories into a visualization — then there are applications contexts, which actually mirror reality of future use. Great example of this is topic of memory sports [1], which do use techniques that work, but are likely less useful for actual remembering real world complex information. [1] https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_sport https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_sport
  - clbrmbr 4y ago
    I have found that by adding simple etymologies I can improve my recall of Latin names for plants. The etymology connects an otherwise totally new word to existing word-concepts.
- clbrmbr 4y ago
  Note taking with SRS may be greater than the sum of the parts.
- duckmysick 4y ago
  Depends on the note-taking strategy. From the same paper you cited, section 8.4 Practice testing - Issues for implementation, pages 34-35: > Another merit of practice testing is that it can be implemented with minimal training. Students can engage in recall-based self-testing in a relatively straightforward fashion. For example, students can self-test via cued recall by creating flashcards (free and low-cost flashcard software is also readily available) or by using the Cornell note-taking system (which involves leaving a blank column when taking notes in class and entering key terms or questions in it shortly after taking notes to use for self-testing when reviewing notes at a later time; for more details, see Pauk & Ross, 2010). Further explanation: https://lsc.cornell.edu/notes.html#post-1037 https://lsc.cornell.edu/notes.html#post-1037 The Cornell note-taking system combines moderate and high learning techniques: elaborative interrogation, self-explanation, practice testing, and distributed practice. If you think about it, creating Anki cards is note-taking in a specific format. Of course you can skip it and use a set prepared by someone else. It would be interesting to test: is creating your own flashcards better for studying than using ready-made ones?
mclightning 4y ago
Not even factual trivia
oaktrout 4y ago
Creating cards is great, but for those seriously deep in the anki game (eg 20,000 active cards or 20 new cards per day for years straight), there isn't enough time to create all the cards you need to learn and pre-made decks are king. I imagine if you need to learn that much material but the pre-made deck isn't there, this gpt integration might be very helpful.
rpastuszak 4y ago
Yeah, I had some success with generating conjugation tables for irregular verbs in Portuguese, but that's just rote memorisation. I still had to clean them up, but the entire process was quicker than typing manually or web scraping.
siva7 4y ago
Anyone who has heavily used Anki will know that loading some deck with complex content that you haven't learned beforehand won't lead to any satisfying results because cards in spaced repetition lack 1) meaningful pedagogic order for learning content and 2) meaningful context for the big picture. Anki is meant for not forgetting, not much more.
Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
What you say is the commonly accepted advice, and the ideal workflow. But the truth is that I have been using a huge premade deck to learn Chinese for the last 3 years, and it works. Would I learn more if I created my own cards? Sure, but studying the premade deck takes me 30 minutes per day, which I can afford. I cannot afford the time to make and update a custom deck.

iotku 4y ago

Yep, a large aspect of flashcards when studying or the occasions when in college they allow you to bring notes to exams involves the aspect of personally curating the material and thinking about it during the process. Perhaps the gpt can find truly useful information, but if you don't know why it's useful you're just filling up your memory with material you don't know how to utilize well.

rjh29 4y ago

It's a classic beginner mistake to load up a 20000 word deck and start learning it when you have no relationship or connection to the cards. Create a card when you first see the word in real life, with that example sentence on the back, and it's so much easier to remember. At least for me anyway.

grandpoobah 4y ago
Those large word decks can be useful though. Download deck, immediately suspend all cards, and then start un-suspending cards as you learn the words. I also add notes to the cards as I go. I have a similar strategy for the Ultimate Geography deck. I want to know where every country is on a map, as well as their capitol and flag. So I suspended all cards, and then periodically enable 20 new ones, and learn as I go. That often means googling the location or pronunciation the first time I encounter the card. (I use the low-key Anki configuration with Pass/Fail buttons plugin)
- rjh29 4y ago
  Everyone's different, but the act of creating the card itself helps motivate me to learn it. I really enjoy having a hand-curated deck. Though I can see larger decks being useful if the card is annoying to make (like your geography example).
johtso 4y ago
The opposite theory is that getting _some_ exposure to the information, even if you can't actively recall it, is still valuable. When you encounter that information in the wild, your brain then has an existing pathway to strengthen.
now__what 4y ago
How do you find the time/energy to get the example sentence on the back of each card? Do you have a process/method to make it easier? When I encounter new words in real life, it tends to be all at once (i.e. watching a show while making dinner). I scribble the word quickly on a nearby notepad and don't have time to look at it again until I'm bulk-uploading new words later. It bothers me that I'm maybe not getting the full benefit of Anki, because I'm missing the context and/or example sentences. I would love to hear ideas about how to resolve that timing issue. I seem to retain more from those 20k word decks you mentioned than my personal decks, likely because they come with example sentences and context that my personal decks are missing.

JamesBarney 4y ago

I agree that generating your own content is better for learning material. But disagree the effect is so large as to nullify any benefits of training. If you have not drilling material on one end, and writing your own questions on the other. I think drilling gpt generated questions is probably closer to the latter than the former.

JonathanFly 4y ago

Totally agree. But I'm tempted solve this by adding MORE AI. Have the tool prompt GPT to quiz you about the new card, or force you to use a new language vocabulary word a bunch of times. Maybe even argue against you adding the card and try to convince it it's worthwhile information. USER: Add a new Anki card for, "It is important to set a high standard from day one." GPT: That seems like generic advice. Of course high standards are better than low standards in a vacuum, but everything has a cost. Being too rigid in setting high standards may limit the business's flexibility to adapt to changing market conditions, customer needs, and technological advancements. Are you sure high standards are that important? (That criticism actually generated with GPT, using the example the author of the tool Tweeted.)

DecayingOrganic 4y ago

Anki's key benefits stem from its utilization of two highly supported and extensively researched pedagogical strategies: (1) retrieval practice and (2) spaced repetition. In contrast, the practice of note-taking, which essentially entails summarizing information in one's own words, has been found to have 'low utility' in academic literature. [0] [0]: https://sci-hub.ru/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26173288/ https://sci-hub.ru/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26173288/

JonathanFly 4y ago
According to some people (Justin Sung on YouTube is where I heard it, probably, so no idea if credible) you can influence the forgetting-curve and make Anki more effective by having more context, putting knowledge into relationships with other knowledge, etc. It's a multiplier on raw/rote space repetition.
- O__________O 4y ago
  Really depends on how you’re defining context, since to me there’s concepts like memory chains/ladders, which simply fit sequential memories into a visualization — then there are applications contexts, which actually mirror reality of future use. Great example of this is topic of memory sports [1], which do use techniques that work, but are likely less useful for actual remembering real world complex information. [1] https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_sport https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_sport
- clbrmbr 4y ago
  I have found that by adding simple etymologies I can improve my recall of Latin names for plants. The etymology connects an otherwise totally new word to existing word-concepts.
clbrmbr 4y ago
Note taking with SRS may be greater than the sum of the parts.
duckmysick 4y ago
Depends on the note-taking strategy. From the same paper you cited, section 8.4 Practice testing - Issues for implementation, pages 34-35: > Another merit of practice testing is that it can be implemented with minimal training. Students can engage in recall-based self-testing in a relatively straightforward fashion. For example, students can self-test via cued recall by creating flashcards (free and low-cost flashcard software is also readily available) or by using the Cornell note-taking system (which involves leaving a blank column when taking notes in class and entering key terms or questions in it shortly after taking notes to use for self-testing when reviewing notes at a later time; for more details, see Pauk & Ross, 2010). Further explanation: https://lsc.cornell.edu/notes.html#post-1037 https://lsc.cornell.edu/notes.html#post-1037 The Cornell note-taking system combines moderate and high learning techniques: elaborative interrogation, self-explanation, practice testing, and distributed practice. If you think about it, creating Anki cards is note-taking in a specific format. Of course you can skip it and use a set prepared by someone else. It would be interesting to test: is creating your own flashcards better for studying than using ready-made ones?

mclightning 4y ago

Not even factual trivia

oaktrout 4y ago

Creating cards is great, but for those seriously deep in the anki game (eg 20,000 active cards or 20 new cards per day for years straight), there isn't enough time to create all the cards you need to learn and pre-made decks are king. I imagine if you need to learn that much material but the pre-made deck isn't there, this gpt integration might be very helpful.

rpastuszak 4y ago

Yeah, I had some success with generating conjugation tables for irregular verbs in Portuguese, but that's just rote memorisation. I still had to clean them up, but the entire process was quicker than typing manually or web scraping.

siva7 4y ago

Anyone who has heavily used Anki will know that loading some deck with complex content that you haven't learned beforehand won't lead to any satisfying results because cards in spaced repetition lack 1) meaningful pedagogic order for learning content and 2) meaningful context for the big picture. Anki is meant for not forgetting, not much more.

Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago

What you say is the commonly accepted advice, and the ideal workflow. But the truth is that I have been using a huge premade deck to learn Chinese for the last 3 years, and it works. Would I learn more if I created my own cards? Sure, but studying the premade deck takes me 30 minutes per day, which I can afford. I cannot afford the time to make and update a custom deck.