4 ms·

Our European citizenship, something many of us were proud of, was taken away against our will after a misleading campaign and a badly run referendum full of lie

Our European citizenship, something many of us were proud of, was taken away against our will after a misleading campaign and a badly run referendum full of lies. Brexit has turned out incredibly badly. I understand why this was sickening, I felt that too.

erulabs 4y ago
I hate to knee jerk but this feels very much like US politics: “they lied to everyone but I’m smart enough to see through it”. Do you, even for a moment, believe the other side even has a point at all? You must realize the opposition says the exact same thing: “they lied but I’m smart enough to see through it!” If there is a clear argument for or against Brexit, then it’s not “sickening”. To paint it as such ignores legitimate arguments and as such makes me question the journalistic integrity.
- jmopp 4y ago
  The other side may have had a point if Nigel Farage didn't immediately backpedal on the "Let's give 350m a month to the NHS instead of the EU" talking point after the referendum.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    You can't overstate how immediately he backpedaled. He reneged on the promise in a morning show the very next day after the referendum.
- ben_w 4y ago
  The closer I look at politics, the more I think democracy is driven by emotion rather than rationale. I'm somewhat perplexed that 3 years after the UK's actual departure and 6.5 since the vote, with 3 Prime Ministers being defenestrated in shame in a row (I don't count Cameron for that but YMMV) — May for 95% disapproval of her Brexit plan, Johnson for being pathologically dishonest and reckless, and Truss once they realised they'd mistaken the wood scraped off the bottom of the barrel for "leadership qualities" — that there's anyone who thinks that specific party has "a point". (One can of course say that Lab is also bad, especially as they've yet to win despite all that, it doesn't matter) It's also noteworthy that Farage, who complained of too many people coming into the country during the referendum (the "Breaking Point" posters), is now upset about people leaving the country and the possibility of a brain drain).
- makerofthings 4y ago
  I had European Citizenship, it was taken away, I did not want this to happen. This was sickening to many of us. I don't believe there is anything there that is incorrect? They did lie. They lied often and obviously. Go look up the Brexit bus, see where the money for the NHS is. Maybe look at some of the adverts around Turkey joining the EU. I won't convince you over the internet, but If you go looking, it won't be hard to convince yourself.
- KaiserPro 4y ago
  I understand your point 1) The main thing of brexit was to "take back control" away from "unelected EU officials" and allow debates by elected officials in Parliament. (british laws for british people) 2) Then the second overtone was stopping or lowering migration, but that was implied. 3) Thirdly was the money aspect, that we would have more money to make public services better. on point 1, we have more statutory instruments now, which allows secretaries of state to change laws at will, without debate. This is a direct betrayal, and something that could have been avoided, but required consensus (which doesn't exist on either side of the debate). We are still pumping out shit laws that people don't like. point 2, immigration hasn't come down: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2022 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati... but the focus has shifted from "them bloody poles" to boats. on point 3, well just look at the place. Its not exactly improved. Now, this isn't actually to do with brexit, its government mismanagement.

erulabs 4y ago

I hate to knee jerk but this feels very much like US politics: “they lied to everyone but I’m smart enough to see through it”. Do you, even for a moment, believe the other side even has a point at all? You must realize the opposition says the exact same thing: “they lied but I’m smart enough to see through it!” If there is a clear argument for or against Brexit, then it’s not “sickening”. To paint it as such ignores legitimate arguments and as such makes me question the journalistic integrity.

jmopp 4y ago
The other side may have had a point if Nigel Farage didn't immediately backpedal on the "Let's give 350m a month to the NHS instead of the EU" talking point after the referendum.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  You can't overstate how immediately he backpedaled. He reneged on the promise in a morning show the very next day after the referendum.
ben_w 4y ago
The closer I look at politics, the more I think democracy is driven by emotion rather than rationale. I'm somewhat perplexed that 3 years after the UK's actual departure and 6.5 since the vote, with 3 Prime Ministers being defenestrated in shame in a row (I don't count Cameron for that but YMMV) — May for 95% disapproval of her Brexit plan, Johnson for being pathologically dishonest and reckless, and Truss once they realised they'd mistaken the wood scraped off the bottom of the barrel for "leadership qualities" — that there's anyone who thinks that specific party has "a point". (One can of course say that Lab is also bad, especially as they've yet to win despite all that, it doesn't matter) It's also noteworthy that Farage, who complained of too many people coming into the country during the referendum (the "Breaking Point" posters), is now upset about people leaving the country and the possibility of a brain drain).
makerofthings 4y ago
I had European Citizenship, it was taken away, I did not want this to happen. This was sickening to many of us. I don't believe there is anything there that is incorrect? They did lie. They lied often and obviously. Go look up the Brexit bus, see where the money for the NHS is. Maybe look at some of the adverts around Turkey joining the EU. I won't convince you over the internet, but If you go looking, it won't be hard to convince yourself.
KaiserPro 4y ago
I understand your point 1) The main thing of brexit was to "take back control" away from "unelected EU officials" and allow debates by elected officials in Parliament. (british laws for british people) 2) Then the second overtone was stopping or lowering migration, but that was implied. 3) Thirdly was the money aspect, that we would have more money to make public services better. on point 1, we have more statutory instruments now, which allows secretaries of state to change laws at will, without debate. This is a direct betrayal, and something that could have been avoided, but required consensus (which doesn't exist on either side of the debate). We are still pumping out shit laws that people don't like. point 2, immigration hasn't come down: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2022 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati... but the focus has shifted from "them bloody poles" to boats. on point 3, well just look at the place. Its not exactly improved. Now, this isn't actually to do with brexit, its government mismanagement.