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This is so true, when people were begging to be promoted because they wanted more money I would have "the talk" with them which was basically, "Look, if you ge

This is so true, when people were begging to be promoted because they wanted more money I would have "the talk" with them which was basically, "Look, if you get a raise and no promotion, expectations will be the same next year as they are this year, so all good. If you get a promotion then expectations for next year, AND EVERY YEAR AFTER NEXT YEAR, are going to be higher. If you've got that in you, okay then but there isn't a 'ya know, I'd rather not be this senior' button, the only way to cut those expectation cords is to leave." Scott McNealy would tell people on promotion, "One step up, one step closer to the door." which captured this same thought. But all of that is peanuts compared to the next step, which is that now, assuming they still want to work at a company, they have to go out and interview and set their salary expectations to something that someone is willing to hire them at. This seems especially hard for the senior folks I've interviewed coming from Google because so much of their expertise is on systems that only exist inside of Google.

donalhunt 4y ago
A lot of the experience is transferable even if the tools are different. The industry has adopted many opensource products that have equivalents at Google (bazle, Prometheus, Grafana, containers, etc). The strongest asset any xoogler has is likely to be bias-to-action and engineering maturity (used to having to complete work to a high standard). There is business value there for companies hiring. I think the larger challenge is finding roles with similar comp. In some markets an L5 could expect at 50-60% comp cut (more for more senior roles).
- ChuckMcM 4y ago
  >>> I think the larger challenge is finding roles with similar comp. This captures it but there is nuance here. Many people, perhaps a majority of people, especially in the engineering professions, have a mental model where "how much I'm paid" is the "score" for "how good I am at my job." So when someone with this mental model is offered a position at half, or even two thirds the compensation level for doing what they had been doing before, cannot get past thinking "This company clearly doesn't realize how good I am if they aren't willing to pay me what I'm 'worth.'" So they pass on the offer. And weeks, sometimes months, go by and they can see that eventually they are going to run out of money, so they take one of these offers but they resent it. And in resenting it they don't bring any sort of reasonable attitude to work and grumble about how "it could be so much better if you just did it the way I suggest" or something like that. And they spend a year, at most two, until either they are asked to leave or they quit in disgust. If they have saved enough money to maintain an acceptable lifestyle without dedicated employment, they will often join the ranks of the 'self employed' where occasionally they consult but mostly they don't. If they haven't saved enough money they sometimes move to a new area, cut contact with friends where it is too embarrassing for them to say they are "unemployable"[1], and get by on smaller work in a reduced cost environment. Bottom line is that it is a tough time for these folks. They are being thrust into a self examination situation that they may not have prepared themselves for. I have nothing but empathy for people in this conundrum. I walked through that fire and came out the other side stronger but not everyone does. [1] They aren't, it really is just a disconnect between their self image and market rate for their skills.

donalhunt 4y ago

A lot of the experience is transferable even if the tools are different. The industry has adopted many opensource products that have equivalents at Google (bazle, Prometheus, Grafana, containers, etc). The strongest asset any xoogler has is likely to be bias-to-action and engineering maturity (used to having to complete work to a high standard). There is business value there for companies hiring. I think the larger challenge is finding roles with similar comp. In some markets an L5 could expect at 50-60% comp cut (more for more senior roles).

ChuckMcM 4y ago
>>> I think the larger challenge is finding roles with similar comp. This captures it but there is nuance here. Many people, perhaps a majority of people, especially in the engineering professions, have a mental model where "how much I'm paid" is the "score" for "how good I am at my job." So when someone with this mental model is offered a position at half, or even two thirds the compensation level for doing what they had been doing before, cannot get past thinking "This company clearly doesn't realize how good I am if they aren't willing to pay me what I'm 'worth.'" So they pass on the offer. And weeks, sometimes months, go by and they can see that eventually they are going to run out of money, so they take one of these offers but they resent it. And in resenting it they don't bring any sort of reasonable attitude to work and grumble about how "it could be so much better if you just did it the way I suggest" or something like that. And they spend a year, at most two, until either they are asked to leave or they quit in disgust. If they have saved enough money to maintain an acceptable lifestyle without dedicated employment, they will often join the ranks of the 'self employed' where occasionally they consult but mostly they don't. If they haven't saved enough money they sometimes move to a new area, cut contact with friends where it is too embarrassing for them to say they are "unemployable"[1], and get by on smaller work in a reduced cost environment. Bottom line is that it is a tough time for these folks. They are being thrust into a self examination situation that they may not have prepared themselves for. I have nothing but empathy for people in this conundrum. I walked through that fire and came out the other side stronger but not everyone does. [1] They aren't, it really is just a disconnect between their self image and market rate for their skills.