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Strict determinism is physically impossible. By physically, I mean you cannot reconcile it with quantum physics. However, the luck we're talking about is not r

Strict determinism is physically impossible. By physically, I mean you cannot reconcile it with quantum physics. However, the luck we're talking about is not random chance, it is comparable to a set of overlapping games with stacked odds. The result is still a chaotic system, that means it will typically tend to end up in one or more attractor states. This is how both inheritance and culture work. Going against the culture, physical or mental inheritance, or pushing to a different attractor state requires overcoming a vast amount of inertia. Within and without. And sometimes help too. Certain initial states have much more leeway in shaping the particular trajectory one would take than others. And yes, ultimate choice of free will is to roll the dice, try something new or create. Determinism is incompatible with that.

retrac 4y ago
I agree about strict determinism being false. It was more of a tangent off my point. There is a subjective experience of being. We think we have a mind, that acts on the world. Both dualists and monists, of all kinds, experience reality with this feeling, I think. The questions I have are: is this an illusion? Is there a mapping between the subjective being that experiences, the mind on the inside, and the apparent order of events in reality? Would our experienced slice of time and space be different, if we had chosen differently? Could we have? That's how I understand the problem of free will. It seems to be something no one has really figured out. There's all sorts of conjectures. Christians say something like that, through some divine process the soul which is related to our mind, is linked to our body and we are given the choice to act. Monadic materialists say the mind is part of reality through some physical or metaphysical process, and thus we, as in our minds, do at least effect changes on the world. About as convincing as the Christians, in my mind. We can say the mind itself is sort of an illusion, but that's even more irritating, isn't it? Because it doesn't feel like one, at least to me. Maybe I misunderstand the problem and the questions are not properly formed.
amanaplanacanal 4y ago
I got hung up on your first paragraph. How is strict determinism incompatible with quantum physics? I would have said the opposite, that it was required by quantum physics. Unless somehow your consciousness reaches its fingers in from outside physics to change quantum interactions.
Rury 4y ago
>Strict determinism is physically impossible. By physically, I mean you cannot reconcile it with quantum physics. This is complete BS, given that there are many aspects of quantum physics that still elude our comprehension. Just because we fail at determining its nature, doesn't necessarily mean its nature is indeterministic. Just like how a pseudo random number generator may generate numbers which appear to be random or indeterministic, but instead are actually the results of an entirely deterministic and predictable process.

retrac 4y ago

I agree about strict determinism being false. It was more of a tangent off my point. There is a subjective experience of being. We think we have a mind, that acts on the world. Both dualists and monists, of all kinds, experience reality with this feeling, I think. The questions I have are: is this an illusion? Is there a mapping between the subjective being that experiences, the mind on the inside, and the apparent order of events in reality? Would our experienced slice of time and space be different, if we had chosen differently? Could we have? That's how I understand the problem of free will. It seems to be something no one has really figured out. There's all sorts of conjectures. Christians say something like that, through some divine process the soul which is related to our mind, is linked to our body and we are given the choice to act. Monadic materialists say the mind is part of reality through some physical or metaphysical process, and thus we, as in our minds, do at least effect changes on the world. About as convincing as the Christians, in my mind. We can say the mind itself is sort of an illusion, but that's even more irritating, isn't it? Because it doesn't feel like one, at least to me. Maybe I misunderstand the problem and the questions are not properly formed.

amanaplanacanal 4y ago

I got hung up on your first paragraph. How is strict determinism incompatible with quantum physics? I would have said the opposite, that it was required by quantum physics. Unless somehow your consciousness reaches its fingers in from outside physics to change quantum interactions.

Rury 4y ago

>Strict determinism is physically impossible. By physically, I mean you cannot reconcile it with quantum physics. This is complete BS, given that there are many aspects of quantum physics that still elude our comprehension. Just because we fail at determining its nature, doesn't necessarily mean its nature is indeterministic. Just like how a pseudo random number generator may generate numbers which appear to be random or indeterministic, but instead are actually the results of an entirely deterministic and predictable process.