6 ms·

Obviously the market doesn't agree with me, but I actually think SF is under rated. I think the truth is SF is undesirable for maybe these reasons: * Many peop

Obviously the market doesn't agree with me, but I actually think SF is under rated. I think the truth is SF is undesirable for maybe these reasons: * Many people were previously forced to live there for jobs * SF doesn't do as much pushing of the homeless out of the dense parts of town as other big cities (which to be clear I think is probably morally the right choice) * Government is bloated and trying to do too much * A motivated political narrative trying to tear the city down On the other hand I think SF has a lot going for it: * It's one of the prettiest cities in the country * It's maybe the most walkable city on the west coast * The rents are now down compared to some other major walkable cities in the US * Some of the highest density of parks around, it's usually not far to some pretty nature * The weather is decent most of the time * Not as impacted by climate change as many other costal cities

acchow 4y ago
> SF doesn't do as much pushing of the homeless out of the dense parts of town as other big cities (which to be clear I think is probably morally the right choice) It's not just a moral choice. It's also legal issue in the ninth circuit, which has jurisdiction over all the western states. In these states, you can't just sweep the homeless out.
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> but I actually think SF is under rated https://www.google.com/search?q=san+francisco+homeless+problem https://www.google.com/search?q=san+francisco+homeless+probl... What's the truth/who is lying? You, or all of these pictures on the Internet? I'm not suggesting you're wrong. It's just that... in order for you to be right (that it's a worthwhile city), all of these pictures and articles about mass homelessness in/near/around San Francisco need to be wrong. Or you just have a really high tolerance/aren't bothered by it or its nature/exposure is overstated?
- wolfgang42 4y ago
  > I think the truth is SF is undesirable for maybe these reasons: [...] > * SF doesn't do as much pushing of the homeless out of the dense parts of town as other big cities (which to be clear I think is probably morally the right choice)
  - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
    I mean isn't that kind of underselling the problem? It's unlivable if you don't want to surround yourself with that kind of problem. Why pay to be near something unpleasant?... > The United States of America is a country between the Atlantic and the Pacific. The land has a total area of 9,831,510 km² (four million mi²) and a total coastline of 19,924 km (12,380.2 mi). This land area is about 1.3 times the size of Australia or 2.3 times the size of the European Union. Plenty of other places to live in America.
    - space_fountain 4y ago
      Well, there are plenty of parts of SF with a low homeless population, for example where I live. Even some of the high density bits are quite nice. It's really unfortunate that the union square/powell street area can feel sketchy, though even there it isn't much worse than say NYC which is currently seeing surging demand
    - RC_ITR 4y ago
      Because some people don’t make their life choices by “out of sight out of mind”.
    - reidjs 4y ago
      People on this site always neglect the positives of having a large homeless population in SF. The homeless keep a lot of boring tech people away from the fun bars and clubs around tenderloin, mission, and soma. The boring people all move to the outskirts and stay there because they can’t deal with the chaos.
- space_fountain 4y ago
  My point is that isn't the reality I see living in the city. It was closer to the reality I saw when I lived on the outskirts of the Mission and commuted downtown every day, but even then not as bad. Here's some random photos I took in the past year https://imgur.com/a/Q0ZF1nH https://imgur.com/a/Q0ZF1nH. Yes SF has some terrible bits, but just like the US I don't actually have to visit them all the time.
  - tayo42 4y ago
    This was my experience too. People just love to hate sf ime. If it wasn't so cold, foggy and expensive I would have stayed. Lifestyle is nice. Easy enough to stay out of the tl
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  I think a lot of people who live in SF realize the solution isn’t hiding/shunning homeless people, so seeing it affects them less than people who live places where they think hiding/shunning homelessness is a solution. Just because something isn’t happening near you doesn’t mean you’re not part of it’s cause.
hindsightbias 4y ago
How about we just stick with the dystopian hellhole narrative and not encourage anyone? kthxbai.
BoorishBears 4y ago
I moved here from NYC about a year ago now. I have no political motive in saying this: it's really not that great. - Public transportation is absolute garbage compared to great cities. Muni coverage is a joke, the fact that the Van Ness Corridor is the only real rapid transit bus line in the entire city is insane - Nowhere near the prettiest city in the country. My balcony overlooks a good half of the city all the way out to across the Bay and there is so much ugly sprawl between major neighborhoods. For every breathtaking view on a hill overlooking the water there's 10 more that are just ugly. - Bike unfriendly tracks running everywhere. I broke my leg and felt like I had done something stupid. Then every single person in the hospital was able to call out the street where I was hurt without prompting and confirmed they see people daily from the same few streets. - The food scene is the worst parts of a major city food scene with none of the upsides. If you want diversity prepare for a pretentious reinterpretation meant to extract extra money from yuppies. For actual diverse food there are clusters of places in places like parts the Mission, but with such crappy transportation actually getting to those clusters is a massive pain. - The city mostly shuts down at an absurd hour. Trying to run errands at 10pm feels like trying to run them at 3 am in most major cities. - The general attitude about crime: The crime itself is a dead horse, but the actual general populace just seems to have such a depressing attitude about it, like people casually trading stories about how their homes have been broken into as if it's a badge of honor or something. NYC's loudest detractors are average New Yorkers, while SF's average populace almost seems to treat it as a taboo... I guess only fringe groups like rich people, politicians, and outsiders are allowed to hate on the situation in this city? Overall, coming from NYC I'm used to expensive, but this city is just way too expensive for what it is. The rent is insane when you take into account the fact people are seriously asking for NYC money to live in this place. If I had to describe this place in one sentence: Consolation prize of a city priced like it came in 1st. I really dislike it.
- space_fountain 4y ago
  What neighborhood do you live in? It's interesting that this is your experience because part of what is prompting this is getting back from a NYC trip and sort of decided, and this is really shallow, but it was just way too much brick. I just like how buildings look in SF a lot more. Transit is totally better in NYC and probably many cities on the East Coast, but it isn't bad, I can get around without a car and rent one the few times I need it which is basically enough. I also have gotten around the lack of transit by biking around a lot more sense the pandemic which has definitely improved my opinion of the city as well (no crashes yet, though I did have a bike stolen). I think part of the difference is maybe some of the things I care about don't match up with you. I'm not that into food, SF has seemed fine in that regard, though definitely more expensive than NYC for what you get. edit: and I'll add SF seemed actually significantly below NYC prices now. To get a similar level of apartment to what I have in SF I'd either pay 2-4 hundred extra or move out far enough that it doesn't seem obvious to me I'd have more amenities and public transit within say 30 minutes of me.
xyzelement 4y ago
// * Not as impacted by climate change as many other costal cities What does that even mean? Like, what has happened to say NYC or Boston as part of climate change that has made them less desirable, vs SF?
- heyitsguay 4y ago
  Since SF is on the narrow tip of a peninsula and surrounded by water on 3 sides, the temperature fluctuates much less than locations inland or even just along the coast. The temperature basically hovers around 60F year-round, a few degrees cooler in the winter, a few degrees warmer in the autumn. I didn't know this before moving here, I don't know if I'd call it _amazing_ weather but it's certainly odd to watch the rest of the country deal with insane heat and cold while SF basically just... stays at 60.
- space_fountain 4y ago
  In addition to what others are saying about the naturally cool and stable climate, SF also has reliable water through long term water rights in the Sierras, fairly high land translating to low flood risks compared to a place like NYC and less likelihood of the sort of major storms that drive storm surge. Some of the surround peninsula is obviously more at risk, but compared to cities in Texas or Southern CA it seems like it will probably do pretty well
- alephnerd 4y ago
  Boston is literally sinking. Some of the most expensive parts of the Boston metro such as Backbay, most of Cambridge, and most of downtown Boston are built on reclaimed land that will be flooded when sea levels rise. This has already started happened in a limited manner.
  - sweettea 4y ago
    Can you elaborate on how this is starting to happen in a limited manner?
    - fragmede 4y ago

acchow 4y ago

> SF doesn't do as much pushing of the homeless out of the dense parts of town as other big cities (which to be clear I think is probably morally the right choice) It's not just a moral choice. It's also legal issue in the ninth circuit, which has jurisdiction over all the western states. In these states, you can't just sweep the homeless out.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago

> but I actually think SF is under rated https://www.google.com/search?q=san+francisco+homeless+problem https://www.google.com/search?q=san+francisco+homeless+probl... What's the truth/who is lying? You, or all of these pictures on the Internet? I'm not suggesting you're wrong. It's just that... in order for you to be right (that it's a worthwhile city), all of these pictures and articles about mass homelessness in/near/around San Francisco need to be wrong. Or you just have a really high tolerance/aren't bothered by it or its nature/exposure is overstated?

wolfgang42 4y ago
> I think the truth is SF is undesirable for maybe these reasons: [...] > * SF doesn't do as much pushing of the homeless out of the dense parts of town as other big cities (which to be clear I think is probably morally the right choice)
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  I mean isn't that kind of underselling the problem? It's unlivable if you don't want to surround yourself with that kind of problem. Why pay to be near something unpleasant?... > The United States of America is a country between the Atlantic and the Pacific. The land has a total area of 9,831,510 km² (four million mi²) and a total coastline of 19,924 km (12,380.2 mi). This land area is about 1.3 times the size of Australia or 2.3 times the size of the European Union. Plenty of other places to live in America.
  - space_fountain 4y ago
    Well, there are plenty of parts of SF with a low homeless population, for example where I live. Even some of the high density bits are quite nice. It's really unfortunate that the union square/powell street area can feel sketchy, though even there it isn't much worse than say NYC which is currently seeing surging demand
  - RC_ITR 4y ago
    Because some people don’t make their life choices by “out of sight out of mind”.
  - reidjs 4y ago
    People on this site always neglect the positives of having a large homeless population in SF. The homeless keep a lot of boring tech people away from the fun bars and clubs around tenderloin, mission, and soma. The boring people all move to the outskirts and stay there because they can’t deal with the chaos.
space_fountain 4y ago
My point is that isn't the reality I see living in the city. It was closer to the reality I saw when I lived on the outskirts of the Mission and commuted downtown every day, but even then not as bad. Here's some random photos I took in the past year https://imgur.com/a/Q0ZF1nH https://imgur.com/a/Q0ZF1nH. Yes SF has some terrible bits, but just like the US I don't actually have to visit them all the time.
- tayo42 4y ago
  This was my experience too. People just love to hate sf ime. If it wasn't so cold, foggy and expensive I would have stayed. Lifestyle is nice. Easy enough to stay out of the tl
RC_ITR 4y ago
I think a lot of people who live in SF realize the solution isn’t hiding/shunning homeless people, so seeing it affects them less than people who live places where they think hiding/shunning homelessness is a solution. Just because something isn’t happening near you doesn’t mean you’re not part of it’s cause.

hindsightbias 4y ago

How about we just stick with the dystopian hellhole narrative and not encourage anyone? kthxbai.

BoorishBears 4y ago

I moved here from NYC about a year ago now. I have no political motive in saying this: it's really not that great. - Public transportation is absolute garbage compared to great cities. Muni coverage is a joke, the fact that the Van Ness Corridor is the only real rapid transit bus line in the entire city is insane - Nowhere near the prettiest city in the country. My balcony overlooks a good half of the city all the way out to across the Bay and there is so much ugly sprawl between major neighborhoods. For every breathtaking view on a hill overlooking the water there's 10 more that are just ugly. - Bike unfriendly tracks running everywhere. I broke my leg and felt like I had done something stupid. Then every single person in the hospital was able to call out the street where I was hurt without prompting and confirmed they see people daily from the same few streets. - The food scene is the worst parts of a major city food scene with none of the upsides. If you want diversity prepare for a pretentious reinterpretation meant to extract extra money from yuppies. For actual diverse food there are clusters of places in places like parts the Mission, but with such crappy transportation actually getting to those clusters is a massive pain. - The city mostly shuts down at an absurd hour. Trying to run errands at 10pm feels like trying to run them at 3 am in most major cities. - The general attitude about crime: The crime itself is a dead horse, but the actual general populace just seems to have such a depressing attitude about it, like people casually trading stories about how their homes have been broken into as if it's a badge of honor or something. NYC's loudest detractors are average New Yorkers, while SF's average populace almost seems to treat it as a taboo... I guess only fringe groups like rich people, politicians, and outsiders are allowed to hate on the situation in this city? Overall, coming from NYC I'm used to expensive, but this city is just way too expensive for what it is. The rent is insane when you take into account the fact people are seriously asking for NYC money to live in this place. If I had to describe this place in one sentence: Consolation prize of a city priced like it came in 1st. I really dislike it.

space_fountain 4y ago
What neighborhood do you live in? It's interesting that this is your experience because part of what is prompting this is getting back from a NYC trip and sort of decided, and this is really shallow, but it was just way too much brick. I just like how buildings look in SF a lot more. Transit is totally better in NYC and probably many cities on the East Coast, but it isn't bad, I can get around without a car and rent one the few times I need it which is basically enough. I also have gotten around the lack of transit by biking around a lot more sense the pandemic which has definitely improved my opinion of the city as well (no crashes yet, though I did have a bike stolen). I think part of the difference is maybe some of the things I care about don't match up with you. I'm not that into food, SF has seemed fine in that regard, though definitely more expensive than NYC for what you get. edit: and I'll add SF seemed actually significantly below NYC prices now. To get a similar level of apartment to what I have in SF I'd either pay 2-4 hundred extra or move out far enough that it doesn't seem obvious to me I'd have more amenities and public transit within say 30 minutes of me.

xyzelement 4y ago

// * Not as impacted by climate change as many other costal cities What does that even mean? Like, what has happened to say NYC or Boston as part of climate change that has made them less desirable, vs SF?

heyitsguay 4y ago
Since SF is on the narrow tip of a peninsula and surrounded by water on 3 sides, the temperature fluctuates much less than locations inland or even just along the coast. The temperature basically hovers around 60F year-round, a few degrees cooler in the winter, a few degrees warmer in the autumn. I didn't know this before moving here, I don't know if I'd call it _amazing_ weather but it's certainly odd to watch the rest of the country deal with insane heat and cold while SF basically just... stays at 60.
space_fountain 4y ago
In addition to what others are saying about the naturally cool and stable climate, SF also has reliable water through long term water rights in the Sierras, fairly high land translating to low flood risks compared to a place like NYC and less likelihood of the sort of major storms that drive storm surge. Some of the surround peninsula is obviously more at risk, but compared to cities in Texas or Southern CA it seems like it will probably do pretty well
alephnerd 4y ago
Boston is literally sinking. Some of the most expensive parts of the Boston metro such as Backbay, most of Cambridge, and most of downtown Boston are built on reclaimed land that will be flooded when sea levels rise. This has already started happened in a limited manner.
- sweettea 4y ago
  Can you elaborate on how this is starting to happen in a limited manner?
  - fragmede 4y ago