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Why figs specifically? Are other fruits less likely to come packed with unintended protein?

Jensson 4y ago
Wasps put their eggs in figs so it is a closer collaboration than most pollinators.
CydeWeys 4y ago
Yes. Figs are basically the most likely, as you see here. The fruit can't even be produced without the help of a fig wasp, and they often end up dead inside it. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/fresh-figs-and-bugs-66202233/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/fresh-figs-and-b...
- enchiridion 4y ago
  That’s not really true. You only need the wasps to pollinate. But the tree will fruit without being pollinated.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Depends on the variety. Most of the US ones don’t even need the wasps but the Calimyrna does.
  - culi 4y ago
    Store bought varieties of the common fig are likely a self-pollinating variety but the wild variety of the common fig, as well as most of the rest of the 800+ species of figs, are not self-pollinating
- noobermin 4y ago
  The conflict regards eating meat right, not relying on other organisms for their production? Because then a lot of fruits or other types of plants can't be eaten if they rely on pollination, right?
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    It’s the exploitation of animals. So chicken eggs aren’t vegan but eggs are unfertilised.
    - culi 4y ago
      California's almond industry is notorious for the devastating effects it has on honeybees and the diseases it spreads. By that definition, California almonds are also not vegan
    - noobermin 4y ago
      If that's the case, then a lot of foods can be considered not vegan by that definition. That includes some trees that are fertilized by dead animals, inadvertently, or by petroleum based fertilizers. Death of wasps by a very natural process is similar in spirit to the latter two. Not just eating meat (which eggs can sort of be considered, same for drinking milk). I wouldn't say a wasp that died in a fig was exploited intentionally by any human, at least, unless the wasps are introduced to figs in order for them to pollinate them. If the absence of action also is considered exploitation, then eating fruit from a tree that a rat has died under could be considered exploitation of animals by that criteria. Yes, this is a bit of a reductio ad absurdum, but a dead wasp in a fig is already a bit down that road. There is certainly a difference between drinking milk from a cow and a (likely) accidentally dead wasp in a fig.
      - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
        I’m not a vegan, but I think this take is way off. If you purposely exploit an animal for food, especially in unfavourable conditions, like putting chickens in cages and harvesting their eggs, farming animals for meat, that’s not vegan. If you are out in the woods and eat the fruit of a tree that an animal died under and fertilised, that’s fine. It probably also doesn’t extend to animals that were dead long enough to turn into oil.
        noobermin 4y ago
- gnicholas 4y ago
  Interesting. We had a fig tree growing up, and I must have eaten hundreds or thousands of them as a kid. I never remember seeing wasps, and I'm pretty sure I would have noticed!
  - csours 4y ago
    These wasps are tiny
    - anon84873628 4y ago
      They also dissolve by the time you eat the fruit
      - morsch 4y ago
        The article is evidence that they do not.
        californical 4y ago
        It seems that normal fig wasps do dissolve with how long it takes to grow the fruit after pollination, but the wasps they found were separate from the normal ones and may have entered later
  - culi 4y ago
    It's quite possible you've eaten wasps even from store-bought figs. The wasps are very tiny
  - WirelessGigabit 4y ago
    Mind you that the fig wasp looks nothing like the insect we see of when we think of a wasp.
  - tpm 4y ago
    That's because there weren't any wasps. Only some fig varieties depend on them. Parthenocarpic cultivars don't (however the resulting fruits are sterile I think).
arcticbull 4y ago
Many figs are pollinated by fig wasps which die inside the fruit. https://www.bonappetit.com/story/figs-and-wasps https://www.bonappetit.com/story/figs-and-wasps
- culi 4y ago
  It's a bit more remarkable than you're making it out to be. There are 855 species of Ficus (figs) and almost every one of them has a corresponding species of fig wasp. A wasp that pollinates basically only that species of fig The figs you buy at a supermarket are of a self-fertile variety of the common fig (Ficus carica), but even the wild variety of this species is not self-fertile
culi 4y ago
Yes figs are pollinated by a species of wasp that literally dies inside of it. There are a few varieties of the common fig that self-pollinate so if you don't have a dead wasp in your fig that's actually rather uncommon. To be fair though the males are the ones that die and they're rather small so you likely wouldn't notice it. Just a small protein boost It's actually quite a striking example of coevolution. There are hundreds (855 according to the Catalog of Life) of different species of figs and almost just as many corresponding species of fig wasps for each species. Makes me wonder if we should think of the fig wasp more like an organ of the fig than a separate individual. Just like we do with mitochondria which at some point were a separate living organism and still maintains a separate set of DNA
- mcv 4y ago
  But as the article points out, there's a lot more in there than just fig wasps. So can I also expect these sort of bugs in my apple, plum or banana?
- badcppdev 4y ago
  TIL: https://www.catalogueoflife.org/ https://www.catalogueoflife.org/ Edit: Only took 10 minutes to find Home sapiens
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  > figs are pollinated by a species of wasp that literally dies inside of it Are figs like other fruits in that a flower is pollinated and then the fruit grows out of it? I bought a house 2 years ago and have a fig tree in the back yard. The first summer, the tree produced only about a dozen or two figs, but I never got any as they disappeared as soon as they started turning color (wildlife). This summer, the tree produced nearly 100 little figs but none of them ever matured/ripened and none were taken by wildlife. I didn't notice that many bees/wasps in the area of that tree (though all the other fruiting plants in my yard did extremely well - and I got to eat almost 1/3 of it!). I'm just wondering if the tree produces the fig regardless of pollination but that pollination is required for ripening. Or if pollination is required to produce the fig at all (like how most fruiting plants work).

Wasps put their eggs in figs so it is a closer collaboration than most pollinators.

Yes. Figs are basically the most likely, as you see here. The fruit can't even be produced without the help of a fig wasp, and they often end up dead inside it. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/fresh-figs-and-bugs-66202233/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/fresh-figs-and-b...

enchiridion 4y ago
That’s not really true. You only need the wasps to pollinate. But the tree will fruit without being pollinated.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Depends on the variety. Most of the US ones don’t even need the wasps but the Calimyrna does.
- culi 4y ago
  Store bought varieties of the common fig are likely a self-pollinating variety but the wild variety of the common fig, as well as most of the rest of the 800+ species of figs, are not self-pollinating
noobermin 4y ago
The conflict regards eating meat right, not relying on other organisms for their production? Because then a lot of fruits or other types of plants can't be eaten if they rely on pollination, right?
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  It’s the exploitation of animals. So chicken eggs aren’t vegan but eggs are unfertilised.
  - culi 4y ago
    California's almond industry is notorious for the devastating effects it has on honeybees and the diseases it spreads. By that definition, California almonds are also not vegan
  - noobermin 4y ago
    If that's the case, then a lot of foods can be considered not vegan by that definition. That includes some trees that are fertilized by dead animals, inadvertently, or by petroleum based fertilizers. Death of wasps by a very natural process is similar in spirit to the latter two. Not just eating meat (which eggs can sort of be considered, same for drinking milk). I wouldn't say a wasp that died in a fig was exploited intentionally by any human, at least, unless the wasps are introduced to figs in order for them to pollinate them. If the absence of action also is considered exploitation, then eating fruit from a tree that a rat has died under could be considered exploitation of animals by that criteria. Yes, this is a bit of a reductio ad absurdum, but a dead wasp in a fig is already a bit down that road. There is certainly a difference between drinking milk from a cow and a (likely) accidentally dead wasp in a fig.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
      I’m not a vegan, but I think this take is way off. If you purposely exploit an animal for food, especially in unfavourable conditions, like putting chickens in cages and harvesting their eggs, farming animals for meat, that’s not vegan. If you are out in the woods and eat the fruit of a tree that an animal died under and fertilised, that’s fine. It probably also doesn’t extend to animals that were dead long enough to turn into oil.
      - noobermin 4y ago
gnicholas 4y ago
Interesting. We had a fig tree growing up, and I must have eaten hundreds or thousands of them as a kid. I never remember seeing wasps, and I'm pretty sure I would have noticed!
- csours 4y ago
  These wasps are tiny
  - anon84873628 4y ago
    They also dissolve by the time you eat the fruit
    - morsch 4y ago
      The article is evidence that they do not.
      - californical 4y ago
        It seems that normal fig wasps do dissolve with how long it takes to grow the fruit after pollination, but the wasps they found were separate from the normal ones and may have entered later
- culi 4y ago
  It's quite possible you've eaten wasps even from store-bought figs. The wasps are very tiny
- WirelessGigabit 4y ago
  Mind you that the fig wasp looks nothing like the insect we see of when we think of a wasp.
- tpm 4y ago
  That's because there weren't any wasps. Only some fig varieties depend on them. Parthenocarpic cultivars don't (however the resulting fruits are sterile I think).

arcticbull 4y ago

Many figs are pollinated by fig wasps which die inside the fruit. https://www.bonappetit.com/story/figs-and-wasps https://www.bonappetit.com/story/figs-and-wasps

culi 4y ago
It's a bit more remarkable than you're making it out to be. There are 855 species of Ficus (figs) and almost every one of them has a corresponding species of fig wasp. A wasp that pollinates basically only that species of fig The figs you buy at a supermarket are of a self-fertile variety of the common fig (Ficus carica), but even the wild variety of this species is not self-fertile

culi 4y ago

Yes figs are pollinated by a species of wasp that literally dies inside of it. There are a few varieties of the common fig that self-pollinate so if you don't have a dead wasp in your fig that's actually rather uncommon. To be fair though the males are the ones that die and they're rather small so you likely wouldn't notice it. Just a small protein boost It's actually quite a striking example of coevolution. There are hundreds (855 according to the Catalog of Life) of different species of figs and almost just as many corresponding species of fig wasps for each species. Makes me wonder if we should think of the fig wasp more like an organ of the fig than a separate individual. Just like we do with mitochondria which at some point were a separate living organism and still maintains a separate set of DNA

mcv 4y ago
But as the article points out, there's a lot more in there than just fig wasps. So can I also expect these sort of bugs in my apple, plum or banana?
badcppdev 4y ago
TIL: https://www.catalogueoflife.org/ https://www.catalogueoflife.org/ Edit: Only took 10 minutes to find Home sapiens
Kon-Peki 4y ago
> figs are pollinated by a species of wasp that literally dies inside of it Are figs like other fruits in that a flower is pollinated and then the fruit grows out of it? I bought a house 2 years ago and have a fig tree in the back yard. The first summer, the tree produced only about a dozen or two figs, but I never got any as they disappeared as soon as they started turning color (wildlife). This summer, the tree produced nearly 100 little figs but none of them ever matured/ripened and none were taken by wildlife. I didn't notice that many bees/wasps in the area of that tree (though all the other fruiting plants in my yard did extremely well - and I got to eat almost 1/3 of it!). I'm just wondering if the tree produces the fig regardless of pollination but that pollination is required for ripening. Or if pollination is required to produce the fig at all (like how most fruiting plants work).