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> but the act of punishing them makes them less likely to happen In general, yes. And that's the justifiable for reason for punishing people for crimes. Which

> but the act of punishing them makes them less likely to happen In general, yes. And that's the justifiable for reason for punishing people for crimes. Which is different from saying that they "deserve" it

rcme 4y ago
What is your definition of deserve? Google’s definition is: > do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment). That seems to fit punishment for committing a crime.
- shiomiru 4y ago
  I think they mean that punishment's main purpose should not be retaliation but deterrence.
Gigachad 4y ago
In this way of thinking, no one deserves anything.
lazyasciiart 4y ago
In general, I think that’s not established to be true at all. Going to prison raises the risk of future crimes, compared to e.g community service.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Have randomized controlled trials been held on this point? I think we can all imagine dozens of confounding factors among the people assigned to community service vs prison if the assignment is done via an element of human judgment.
  - lazyasciiart 4y ago
    Yes. Here's one, for example: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229989870_Does_Community_Service_Rehabilitate_better_than_Short-term_Imprisonment_Results_of_a_Controlled_Experiment https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229989870_Does_Comm... This meta-study pulls together RCTs and experimental programs and covers non-custodial (which includes a range of options besides community service) v custodial, and finds them to be at worst equivalent for recidivism https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.4073/csr.2015.1 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.4073/csr.2015.1
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Thanks for the link; I will read the full paper later today. At a reading of abstract, I don't know how much I worry about recidivism for the criminals facing prison sentences of no more than 14 days. Those are people charged with some ticky-tack offense and probably not the people who are disproportionately likely going to go on to carjack or murder someone in my family.

rcme 4y ago

What is your definition of deserve? Google’s definition is: > do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment). That seems to fit punishment for committing a crime.

shiomiru 4y ago
I think they mean that punishment's main purpose should not be retaliation but deterrence.

Gigachad 4y ago

In this way of thinking, no one deserves anything.

lazyasciiart 4y ago

In general, I think that’s not established to be true at all. Going to prison raises the risk of future crimes, compared to e.g community service.

sokoloff 4y ago
Have randomized controlled trials been held on this point? I think we can all imagine dozens of confounding factors among the people assigned to community service vs prison if the assignment is done via an element of human judgment.
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  Yes. Here's one, for example: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229989870_Does_Community_Service_Rehabilitate_better_than_Short-term_Imprisonment_Results_of_a_Controlled_Experiment https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229989870_Does_Comm... This meta-study pulls together RCTs and experimental programs and covers non-custodial (which includes a range of options besides community service) v custodial, and finds them to be at worst equivalent for recidivism https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.4073/csr.2015.1 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.4073/csr.2015.1
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Thanks for the link; I will read the full paper later today. At a reading of abstract, I don't know how much I worry about recidivism for the criminals facing prison sentences of no more than 14 days. Those are people charged with some ticky-tack offense and probably not the people who are disproportionately likely going to go on to carjack or murder someone in my family.