4 ms·

> A business trip required the use of an unfamiliar travel platform, which required time and effort to learn. I scanned my own lunch items into a kiosk at the a

> A business trip required the use of an unfamiliar travel platform, which required time and effort to learn. I scanned my own lunch items into a kiosk at the airport, which asked me if I wanted to leave a tip (to myself?). When the flight was delayed, I sat in a coffee shop where orders had to be placed via an iPad. After 30 minutes of waiting for a latte, I looked around for help but couldn’t find a human being to complain to (the guy next to me claimed to have been waiting 40 minutes). I eventually boarded without coffee or a refund. This has happened to me on no less than a half dozen occasions. Those airport kiosks are a class action suit waiting to happen, IMO.

AlexandrB 4y ago
> which asked me if I wanted to leave a tip (to myself?) This reminds me of weird tip-related hijinx I experienced recently. First, also at an airport, the credit card machine asked me to leave a tip at one of those retail "news" stores. This seems like an overreach. Retail was traditionally a tip-free experience and the prices at those stores are outrageous already. In another incident, my restaurant bill included an automatic 20% "service fee" (for a party of 2). We had to ask if this was the equivalent of a tip and going to the staff or what (turns out it was). I totally support paying restaurant staff a living wage and eliminating tips entirely, but this seems somewhat underhanded. Sure I was planning to tip already, but calling it a "service fee" sends a very muddled message. It would have been more transparent to just make the food cost 20% more. Finally, as a general observation, the move paying (and tipping) electronically makes me question if the waitstaff are getting 100% of these digital tips or the employer is keeping some/all of it.
- thwayunion 4y ago
  > In another incident, my restaurant bill included an automatic 20% "service fee" Hm. This has been pretty common in larger cities for a while, mostly because the service staff actually need the tips to like not be literally homeless. I can see how this would be off-putting if you're not aware of the practice, though. > It would have been more transparent to just make the food cost 20% more. They don't do this because people misunderstand the total price or at least misperceive it. > Finally, as a general observation, the move paying (and tipping) electronically makes me question if the waitstaff are getting 100% of these digital tips or the employer is keeping some/all of it. I'm pretty sure there are tax/fraud implications if they call it a tip or service fee and then pocket the cash. But yeah it's not like wait staff typically have tons of negotiating power.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    > Hm. This has been pretty common in larger cities for a while, mostly because the service staff actually need the tips to like not be literally homeless. This is fucked up on its face. They should be making $15/hr or whatever the living wage is in the area (probably more) and tips should be on top of this. How did tipping go from a bonus to something someone needs to survive? Edit: > I'm pretty sure there are tax/fraud implications if they call it a tip or service fee and then pocket the cash. But yeah it's not like wait staff typically have tons of negotiating power. If a company as large and with as many workers as DoorDash was able to get away with it for over a year[1], I'm sure that there are small businesses out there doing it unnoticed. I'm not sure how a worker could confirm they were paid out fairly without independently keeping track of every customer's bill for the night. This is complicated even more when there is tip sharing between "front" and "back" of house. I hope I'm wrong though. [1] https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/doordash-settles-lawsuit-for-2-5m-over-deceptive-tipping-practices/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/doordash-settles-lawsuit-fo...
    - thwayunion 4y ago
      > This is fucked up on its face. They should be making $15/hr or whatever the living wage is in the area (probably more) and tips should be on top of this. How did tipping go from a bonus to something someone needs to survive? Regardless, that ship sailed a long time ago. Restaurants have tried the "tip in price" model. It doesn't work; homo economicus is a lie. Consumer behavior is pretty well understood on this question. Remember that if the restaurant goes under then everyone loses their jobs anyways. The only viable solution that ensures decent pay and also keeps the business viable is to implement it as "mandatory tipping". > If a company as large and with as many workers as DoorDash was able to get away with it for over a year[1], I'm sure that there are small businesses out there doing it unnoticed. Agreed. But tip theft happens regardless. I don't think the "mandatory tip" model makes it either harder or easier. At the end of the day most people pay with credit and the owner of the restaurant owns the till that counts out that tips. I'm not saying that this situation is ideal; I'm just saying: what's the alternative that actually works?
bombcar 4y ago
That would be an instant chargeback on my part
_fat_santa 4y ago
I was at an airport that had these iPad's a while back. Sat down and an Ad started playing on the iPad. When I asked a nearby server how I could order, she told me "the menu will come up after the ad". Like seriously, you're going to milk your customers for everything, making them watch an ad for the privilege of ordering.

AlexandrB 4y ago

> which asked me if I wanted to leave a tip (to myself?) This reminds me of weird tip-related hijinx I experienced recently. First, also at an airport, the credit card machine asked me to leave a tip at one of those retail "news" stores. This seems like an overreach. Retail was traditionally a tip-free experience and the prices at those stores are outrageous already. In another incident, my restaurant bill included an automatic 20% "service fee" (for a party of 2). We had to ask if this was the equivalent of a tip and going to the staff or what (turns out it was). I totally support paying restaurant staff a living wage and eliminating tips entirely, but this seems somewhat underhanded. Sure I was planning to tip already, but calling it a "service fee" sends a very muddled message. It would have been more transparent to just make the food cost 20% more. Finally, as a general observation, the move paying (and tipping) electronically makes me question if the waitstaff are getting 100% of these digital tips or the employer is keeping some/all of it.

thwayunion 4y ago
> In another incident, my restaurant bill included an automatic 20% "service fee" Hm. This has been pretty common in larger cities for a while, mostly because the service staff actually need the tips to like not be literally homeless. I can see how this would be off-putting if you're not aware of the practice, though. > It would have been more transparent to just make the food cost 20% more. They don't do this because people misunderstand the total price or at least misperceive it. > Finally, as a general observation, the move paying (and tipping) electronically makes me question if the waitstaff are getting 100% of these digital tips or the employer is keeping some/all of it. I'm pretty sure there are tax/fraud implications if they call it a tip or service fee and then pocket the cash. But yeah it's not like wait staff typically have tons of negotiating power.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > Hm. This has been pretty common in larger cities for a while, mostly because the service staff actually need the tips to like not be literally homeless. This is fucked up on its face. They should be making $15/hr or whatever the living wage is in the area (probably more) and tips should be on top of this. How did tipping go from a bonus to something someone needs to survive? Edit: > I'm pretty sure there are tax/fraud implications if they call it a tip or service fee and then pocket the cash. But yeah it's not like wait staff typically have tons of negotiating power. If a company as large and with as many workers as DoorDash was able to get away with it for over a year[1], I'm sure that there are small businesses out there doing it unnoticed. I'm not sure how a worker could confirm they were paid out fairly without independently keeping track of every customer's bill for the night. This is complicated even more when there is tip sharing between "front" and "back" of house. I hope I'm wrong though. [1] https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/doordash-settles-lawsuit-for-2-5m-over-deceptive-tipping-practices/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/doordash-settles-lawsuit-fo...
  - thwayunion 4y ago
    > This is fucked up on its face. They should be making $15/hr or whatever the living wage is in the area (probably more) and tips should be on top of this. How did tipping go from a bonus to something someone needs to survive? Regardless, that ship sailed a long time ago. Restaurants have tried the "tip in price" model. It doesn't work; homo economicus is a lie. Consumer behavior is pretty well understood on this question. Remember that if the restaurant goes under then everyone loses their jobs anyways. The only viable solution that ensures decent pay and also keeps the business viable is to implement it as "mandatory tipping". > If a company as large and with as many workers as DoorDash was able to get away with it for over a year[1], I'm sure that there are small businesses out there doing it unnoticed. Agreed. But tip theft happens regardless. I don't think the "mandatory tip" model makes it either harder or easier. At the end of the day most people pay with credit and the owner of the restaurant owns the till that counts out that tips. I'm not saying that this situation is ideal; I'm just saying: what's the alternative that actually works?

bombcar 4y ago

That would be an instant chargeback on my part

_fat_santa 4y ago

I was at an airport that had these iPad's a while back. Sat down and an Ad started playing on the iPad. When I asked a nearby server how I could order, she told me "the menu will come up after the ad". Like seriously, you're going to milk your customers for everything, making them watch an ad for the privilege of ordering.