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> You'll have no problem finding countless examples of weird things that have been viewed and interacted with by hundreds of thousands or even millions of peopl

> You'll have no problem finding countless examples of weird things that have been viewed and interacted with by hundreds of thousands or even millions of people. I don't think how widespread a piece of media is has a strong correlation with its impact. Yes, several billion people probably know who Grumpy Cat is. But it doesn't matter. Our awareness of Grumpy Cat doesn't change how we think about the world, how we live, how we relate to others. It's just a shared but otherwise mostly meaningless experience, like seeing a rainbow. The Beat Generation was a relatively tiny subculture whose work at the time was consumed by a small number of people. But we remember them because the work they created mattered. It said something meaningful about the culture it was a reaction to and by doing that, it forced that culture to change. Beats, hippies, punks, maybe early hackers were all countercultures because they in some way bent the arrow of history. There are no shortage of subcultures today, and they are great for finding people you share interests. But they don't have the same impact as a real counterculture.

jjk166 4y ago
Grumpy cat is mainstream culture. Yes, just because something has been widely consumed does not make it impactful, but that's a very different position from there are no impactful things widely consumed. The impact of various past countercultures is only evident in hindsight. As you said, movements like the Beat generation were at the time tiny subcultures, of the exact same sort we have loads of today. To say that 80s hackers were a counterculture but modern biohackers are just a subculture is simply temporal chauvinism.
yunwal 4y ago
In the past 10 years, capitalism has become a dirty word to people under 30. Whether you agree or not, that feels like it matters.
- munificent 4y ago
  As a Gen-Xer, I can assure you capitalism was a dirty word for longer than that. But that dislike has thus far had zero apparent effect on the complete domination of capitalism and corporatism over the public sphere. Instead, what we largely see is huge capitalistic corporations draping themselves in an anti-capitalist aesthetic which consumers seem perfectly happy to accept. Every time you go to the store and buy a jar of "homestyle" marinara sauce or order a bo-ho wall hippie-esque wall decoration off Amazon that was made in a factory in China, you are demonstrating anti-capitalist style but profoundly capitalistic values.
  - yunwal 4y ago
    > As a Gen-Xer, I can assure you capitalism was a dirty word for longer than that In certain circles, but (assuming America) certainly not approaching a majority[1]. > Instead, what we largely see is huge capitalistic corporations draping themselves in an anti-capitalist aesthetic which consumers seem perfectly happy to accept. I think it's too difficult to avoid this stuff as a consumer. Hell, even farmer's markets are mostly run by big corps now. But from the labor side, I think it's making a difference. Almost no one in their twenties is trying to climb the corporate ladder or put in effort at their big corp jobs. As soon as generations that were bought in to careerism retire, I think things will shift. [1] - https://news.gallup.com/poll/268766/socialism-popular-capitalism-among-young-adults.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/268766/socialism-popular-capita...

jjk166 4y ago

Grumpy cat is mainstream culture. Yes, just because something has been widely consumed does not make it impactful, but that's a very different position from there are no impactful things widely consumed. The impact of various past countercultures is only evident in hindsight. As you said, movements like the Beat generation were at the time tiny subcultures, of the exact same sort we have loads of today. To say that 80s hackers were a counterculture but modern biohackers are just a subculture is simply temporal chauvinism.

yunwal 4y ago

In the past 10 years, capitalism has become a dirty word to people under 30. Whether you agree or not, that feels like it matters.

munificent 4y ago
As a Gen-Xer, I can assure you capitalism was a dirty word for longer than that. But that dislike has thus far had zero apparent effect on the complete domination of capitalism and corporatism over the public sphere. Instead, what we largely see is huge capitalistic corporations draping themselves in an anti-capitalist aesthetic which consumers seem perfectly happy to accept. Every time you go to the store and buy a jar of "homestyle" marinara sauce or order a bo-ho wall hippie-esque wall decoration off Amazon that was made in a factory in China, you are demonstrating anti-capitalist style but profoundly capitalistic values.
- yunwal 4y ago
  > As a Gen-Xer, I can assure you capitalism was a dirty word for longer than that In certain circles, but (assuming America) certainly not approaching a majority[1]. > Instead, what we largely see is huge capitalistic corporations draping themselves in an anti-capitalist aesthetic which consumers seem perfectly happy to accept. I think it's too difficult to avoid this stuff as a consumer. Hell, even farmer's markets are mostly run by big corps now. But from the labor side, I think it's making a difference. Almost no one in their twenties is trying to climb the corporate ladder or put in effort at their big corp jobs. As soon as generations that were bought in to careerism retire, I think things will shift. [1] - https://news.gallup.com/poll/268766/socialism-popular-capitalism-among-young-adults.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/268766/socialism-popular-capita...