4 ms·

An extension of this is externalizing costs. Like hiring janitorial services instead of employing janitors, every decoupling of the system adds overhead. The p

An extension of this is externalizing costs. Like hiring janitorial services instead of employing janitors, every decoupling of the system adds overhead. The people who could be recognized for being a good employee and offered other better positions are now often rigidly locked into low-wage labor permanently because no companies are willing to train people. This is part of what is causing the rapidly rising inequality and college expenses. Many jobs that can be easily taught through apprenticeships and progressive responsibilities are being outsourced to colleges and universities, which were never meant to be all-encompassing career skills schools. It also weakens companies' social contract, leading to even worse stewardship.

mch82 4y ago
Great observation! Example: I met a person who started in a job like janitor and ended his career setting up video calls for the CEO. Seems likely that 50+ year career arc was possible because of employee training and all those jobs being in-house.
tick_tock_tick 4y ago
I mean almost all of that is the result of horrible tax law around employment.
- solarmist 4y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean. Can you give an example? I've attributed it to the formalization/metricization of every aspect of businesses. MBA-itis. "If you can't measure and control it eliminate it." Similarly, if you believe a company's only job is to provide shareholders profits, this is the natural end game.
  - gwright 4y ago
    I'm not sure exactly what was intended by the poster but I suspect it is related to the employment taxes associated with an employee vs a 1099 contractor or external vendor. In addition to the different tax treatment labor law regulations are significantly different between those two types of staff with the contractor/external vendor being much less restrictive than for employees. I haven't seen many details in most news stories about layoffs in the tech industry regarding contractors, but I suspect that the number of contractors terminated is significant also as those positions tend to be trimmed before employees.
bgribble 4y ago
At least in the US, skyrocketing college costs aren't really due to excess demand. They are a side effect of the torrent of student loan money that the schools have captured over the last 20-30 years. The lenders and the schools worked hand-in-hand to ratchet up the price tags and the size of the loans for college educations. All their incentives were to go up up up! The additional revenue to the schools didn't go to a better education, of course ... it largely went to administrative salaries. The administrative budget at US colleges has grown unbelievably while the instructional budget per-capita has been flat, driven down by the "adjunctification" of teaching staff.
- solarmist 4y ago
  Yup, 100% true. But they can both be true. I mean it in the way that many people who might never have gone to college are now expected to do to not have a minimum-wage job forever.
- medvezhenok 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure there was also a corresponding decrease in public funding for universities; to where most of the cost of the universities used to be borne by the state (and paid via taxes), but are now privatized. Increasing loans are only part of the issue (and likely exist to offset the pullback in public university funding) https://www.amacad.org/publication/public-research-universities-changes-state-funding/section/3 https://www.amacad.org/publication/public-research-universit...
- sul_tasto 4y ago
  Does anyone know of any studies on how the proliferation of MBA degrees has affected universities in this way, or other industries in similar ways? That is, the ballooning of administrative roles to the detriment of the student/consumer and core employees who produce the real value for a company/university/etc? I thought I read somewhere in the last year about how the proliferation of MBA degrees result in the lowering of workers’ wages, but little other benefit…
  - opyate 4y ago

mch82 4y ago

Great observation! Example: I met a person who started in a job like janitor and ended his career setting up video calls for the CEO. Seems likely that 50+ year career arc was possible because of employee training and all those jobs being in-house.

tick_tock_tick 4y ago

I mean almost all of that is the result of horrible tax law around employment.

solarmist 4y ago
I'm not sure what you mean. Can you give an example? I've attributed it to the formalization/metricization of every aspect of businesses. MBA-itis. "If you can't measure and control it eliminate it." Similarly, if you believe a company's only job is to provide shareholders profits, this is the natural end game.
- gwright 4y ago
  I'm not sure exactly what was intended by the poster but I suspect it is related to the employment taxes associated with an employee vs a 1099 contractor or external vendor. In addition to the different tax treatment labor law regulations are significantly different between those two types of staff with the contractor/external vendor being much less restrictive than for employees. I haven't seen many details in most news stories about layoffs in the tech industry regarding contractors, but I suspect that the number of contractors terminated is significant also as those positions tend to be trimmed before employees.

bgribble 4y ago

At least in the US, skyrocketing college costs aren't really due to excess demand. They are a side effect of the torrent of student loan money that the schools have captured over the last 20-30 years. The lenders and the schools worked hand-in-hand to ratchet up the price tags and the size of the loans for college educations. All their incentives were to go up up up! The additional revenue to the schools didn't go to a better education, of course ... it largely went to administrative salaries. The administrative budget at US colleges has grown unbelievably while the instructional budget per-capita has been flat, driven down by the "adjunctification" of teaching staff.

solarmist 4y ago
Yup, 100% true. But they can both be true. I mean it in the way that many people who might never have gone to college are now expected to do to not have a minimum-wage job forever.
medvezhenok 4y ago
I'm pretty sure there was also a corresponding decrease in public funding for universities; to where most of the cost of the universities used to be borne by the state (and paid via taxes), but are now privatized. Increasing loans are only part of the issue (and likely exist to offset the pullback in public university funding) https://www.amacad.org/publication/public-research-universities-changes-state-funding/section/3 https://www.amacad.org/publication/public-research-universit...
sul_tasto 4y ago
Does anyone know of any studies on how the proliferation of MBA degrees has affected universities in this way, or other industries in similar ways? That is, the ballooning of administrative roles to the detriment of the student/consumer and core employees who produce the real value for a company/university/etc? I thought I read somewhere in the last year about how the proliferation of MBA degrees result in the lowering of workers’ wages, but little other benefit…
- opyate 4y ago