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> Wow someone really ought to let the rest of the world outside of America know. It's exactly the same as you describe in many European cities. When you pack

> Wow someone really ought to let the rest of the world outside of America know. It's exactly the same as you describe in many European cities. When you pack houses next to each other and stack apartments on top one of another, which is the definition of a city, you get concrete. Lots of concrete. Sure some European cities may have historical city center totally car free but most restaurants have outdoor terrace on regular streets, complete with cars, lots of people passing by, noise (not just from cars) and dog poo. I agree with you one point: it's not a relaxing environment to eat.

Waterluvian 4y ago
My first time outside North America was Madrid. I loved eating outside at all these restaurants that were on cobblestone roads that saw almost no traffic. But I also didn’t enjoy how loud it was at 11pm with there being many patios near my apartment, given I hadn’t yet adopted their culture of a later evening.
piva00 4y ago
In many but definitely not a general trend that you can't find a nice spot to eat outdoors. Even in very crowded cities like Paris you have tons of options to eat by the street and enjoy a pleasant experience. Barcelona, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Paris, Madrid, Lisbon, Porto, Copenhagen, so on and so forth are all cities I thoroughly enjoy to eat outdoors during summers, in almost any part of the cities, and not only in their "historical centres". It's definitely not even close to the same issue as in North American cities.
- Macha 4y ago
  Dublin (and really Irish cities in general are a bit more mixed). Because of restrictions on smoking indoors in the 2000s, many restaurants and bars have had time to build outdoor areas pre-covid. In some of those, where the outdoor area was nice enough (e.g not on the roadside, not a little cubbyhole which used to be just a yard for bins that was converted, and sufficiently spaced that smoke from the smokers is unlikely to reach you), you'd have non-smokers also choose to use the outdoor area. I think those places that were already set up for this before the pandemic, along with those who have managed to create such an experience, will continue with a slight uptick in outdoor dining. Those who just put some tables and chairs on the pavement in front of the store will not, especially amongst increasing calls to reclaim that space for pedestrians and cycle lanes.
noahtallen 4y ago
Car noise is the dominating noise in cities: https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8 https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8 One thing I’ve noticed in tightly packed cities like Paris is that neighborhoods in the city proper are very quiet because there’s little car traffic. If there is traffic, it’s light enough to not make it through one tightly packed row of units. Contrast to any American city, and most downtown areas will be within hearing distance of a large freeway. This problem isn’t solved globally, but there are loads of cities that are very pleasant to be in outside. That’s not the case in North America, mostly because of car traffic. (Space inefficient, so less room for nice things, loud, and dangerous)

Waterluvian 4y ago

My first time outside North America was Madrid. I loved eating outside at all these restaurants that were on cobblestone roads that saw almost no traffic. But I also didn’t enjoy how loud it was at 11pm with there being many patios near my apartment, given I hadn’t yet adopted their culture of a later evening.

piva00 4y ago

In many but definitely not a general trend that you can't find a nice spot to eat outdoors. Even in very crowded cities like Paris you have tons of options to eat by the street and enjoy a pleasant experience. Barcelona, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Paris, Madrid, Lisbon, Porto, Copenhagen, so on and so forth are all cities I thoroughly enjoy to eat outdoors during summers, in almost any part of the cities, and not only in their "historical centres". It's definitely not even close to the same issue as in North American cities.

Macha 4y ago
Dublin (and really Irish cities in general are a bit more mixed). Because of restrictions on smoking indoors in the 2000s, many restaurants and bars have had time to build outdoor areas pre-covid. In some of those, where the outdoor area was nice enough (e.g not on the roadside, not a little cubbyhole which used to be just a yard for bins that was converted, and sufficiently spaced that smoke from the smokers is unlikely to reach you), you'd have non-smokers also choose to use the outdoor area. I think those places that were already set up for this before the pandemic, along with those who have managed to create such an experience, will continue with a slight uptick in outdoor dining. Those who just put some tables and chairs on the pavement in front of the store will not, especially amongst increasing calls to reclaim that space for pedestrians and cycle lanes.

noahtallen 4y ago

Car noise is the dominating noise in cities: https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8 https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8 One thing I’ve noticed in tightly packed cities like Paris is that neighborhoods in the city proper are very quiet because there’s little car traffic. If there is traffic, it’s light enough to not make it through one tightly packed row of units. Contrast to any American city, and most downtown areas will be within hearing distance of a large freeway. This problem isn’t solved globally, but there are loads of cities that are very pleasant to be in outside. That’s not the case in North America, mostly because of car traffic. (Space inefficient, so less room for nice things, loud, and dangerous)