4 ms·

Viewing everyone trying to sell you things, particularly the ones who you are actively seeing out to buy entertainment from, as adversaries is a pretty self-def

Viewing everyone trying to sell you things, particularly the ones who you are actively seeing out to buy entertainment from, as adversaries is a pretty self-defeating approach.

autoexec 4y ago
Companies Wanting to sell people things isn't the problem. Using the most mundane details of our life to manipulate us, and to extract as much money from us as possible is a problem. So is failing to secure that data. https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/disney-responds-to-alleged-hack-we-have-found-no-evidence-of-a-security-breach https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/disney-responds-to-all... https://finance.yahoo.com/video/disney-responds-data-breach-thousands-202322416.html?guccounter=1 https://finance.yahoo.com/video/disney-responds-data-breach-... https://chipandco.com/the-walt-disney-world-dolphin-hotel-was-involved-in-a-data-breach-223459/ https://chipandco.com/the-walt-disney-world-dolphin-hotel-wa...
- JonathonW 4y ago
  The first two reference something where there's no strong evidence showing that it actually happened (it's more likely that it was credential stuffing-- using data from other breaches to compromise Disney+ accounts using the same passwords), and the third was Starwood Hotels (now Marriott), not Disney.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    My fault! One of those first two should have been about this: https://disneynewstoday.net/2016/07/31/disney-interactive-shuts-down-playdom-forums-over-data-breach/ https://disneynewstoday.net/2016/07/31/disney-interactive-sh... I wouldn't give Disney a pass on the credential stuffing. https://www.the-parallax.com/poor-security-password-reuse-disney-plus-breach/ https://www.the-parallax.com/poor-security-password-reuse-di... As for the hotel it's sort of a partnership deal, Disney owns the land, built it, leases the building to another company to run, takes a cut of the profits, and has them branded as part of their Walt Disney Collection of resorts. I think it's fair to give Disney the blame. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Dolphin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Dolphin There's also this, which you could argue was outside of their control too, but I think once a company hands your data over to third parties they're on the hook for what happens as a result: https://threatpost.com/epsilon-data-breach-expands-include-capital-one-disney-others-040411/75100/ https://threatpost.com/epsilon-data-breach-expands-include-c...
oarsinsync 4y ago
What do you consider a smart TV vendor who advertises to you on your own TV?
nehal3m 4y ago
Setting up a surveillance system to part you from your money sounds adversarial to me in the combative sense. That said, adversarial doesn't necessarily imply hostility, does it?
JohnFen 4y ago
You're right. But I'm not doing that. I view the data collection and the use the data is put to as adversarial, not necessarily the efforts to sell me things. Although that can be very adversarial, too, depending on how the sales effort is conducted.
graphe 4y ago
There isn't an opt out for things like facial tracking, and it doesn't bring benefit unless your goal is to be sold things based on being calculated. If they had a way to automatically track you for your benefit like emotional distress, lost kids, etc it is not adversarial. My goal is to not be sold things I don't need or to add to their data, so I don't go to Disneyland. Is there any benefit to the end user if they're not interested in being sold to? If I don't get one is adversarial and they are my enemy.
- caddemon 4y ago
  Some of their tracking is directly improving guest experiences in the parks though. Live data from magic bands helps with crowd control measures for example. Sure, this is ultimately a business move, but it's not a manipulative tactic, it's actual product improvement. If you don't care for Disney to begin with that is fine, but I think the tracking absolutely can bring benefit to the entertainment value of the trip if you are a fan of the parks. I like having my ride photos automatically show up in my account and having my lunch pickup order come out with impeccable timing. I'm not saying Disney doesn't also play psychological tricks to get you to buy more, and probably they are using personalized info for that. I'm just saying "it doesn't bring benefit unless your goal is to be sold things based on being calculated" is not entirely true either. It does improve things you are already paying for like how efficiently you can plan your activities each day in the parks.
  - graphe 4y ago
    Thanks I haven't been to Disneyland in a long time. I'm so used to seeing tracking with no benefits I didn't believe it could be used in a way that a customer like yourself defends it and says it has uses you benefit from.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > it's not a manipulative tactic, it's actual product improvement. Such things can be, and often are, both.

Viewing everyone trying to sell you things, particularly the ones who you are actively seeing out to buy entertainment from, as adversaries is a pretty self-defeating approach.

autoexec 4y ago

Companies Wanting to sell people things isn't the problem. Using the most mundane details of our life to manipulate us, and to extract as much money from us as possible is a problem. So is failing to secure that data. https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/disney-responds-to-alleged-hack-we-have-found-no-evidence-of-a-security-breach https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/disney-responds-to-all... https://finance.yahoo.com/video/disney-responds-data-breach-thousands-202322416.html?guccounter=1 https://finance.yahoo.com/video/disney-responds-data-breach-... https://chipandco.com/the-walt-disney-world-dolphin-hotel-was-involved-in-a-data-breach-223459/ https://chipandco.com/the-walt-disney-world-dolphin-hotel-wa...

JonathonW 4y ago
The first two reference something where there's no strong evidence showing that it actually happened (it's more likely that it was credential stuffing-- using data from other breaches to compromise Disney+ accounts using the same passwords), and the third was Starwood Hotels (now Marriott), not Disney.
- autoexec 4y ago
  My fault! One of those first two should have been about this: https://disneynewstoday.net/2016/07/31/disney-interactive-shuts-down-playdom-forums-over-data-breach/ https://disneynewstoday.net/2016/07/31/disney-interactive-sh... I wouldn't give Disney a pass on the credential stuffing. https://www.the-parallax.com/poor-security-password-reuse-disney-plus-breach/ https://www.the-parallax.com/poor-security-password-reuse-di... As for the hotel it's sort of a partnership deal, Disney owns the land, built it, leases the building to another company to run, takes a cut of the profits, and has them branded as part of their Walt Disney Collection of resorts. I think it's fair to give Disney the blame. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Dolphin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Dolphin There's also this, which you could argue was outside of their control too, but I think once a company hands your data over to third parties they're on the hook for what happens as a result: https://threatpost.com/epsilon-data-breach-expands-include-capital-one-disney-others-040411/75100/ https://threatpost.com/epsilon-data-breach-expands-include-c...

oarsinsync 4y ago

What do you consider a smart TV vendor who advertises to you on your own TV?

nehal3m 4y ago

Setting up a surveillance system to part you from your money sounds adversarial to me in the combative sense. That said, adversarial doesn't necessarily imply hostility, does it?

JohnFen 4y ago

You're right. But I'm not doing that. I view the data collection and the use the data is put to as adversarial, not necessarily the efforts to sell me things. Although that can be very adversarial, too, depending on how the sales effort is conducted.

graphe 4y ago

There isn't an opt out for things like facial tracking, and it doesn't bring benefit unless your goal is to be sold things based on being calculated. If they had a way to automatically track you for your benefit like emotional distress, lost kids, etc it is not adversarial. My goal is to not be sold things I don't need or to add to their data, so I don't go to Disneyland. Is there any benefit to the end user if they're not interested in being sold to? If I don't get one is adversarial and they are my enemy.

caddemon 4y ago
Some of their tracking is directly improving guest experiences in the parks though. Live data from magic bands helps with crowd control measures for example. Sure, this is ultimately a business move, but it's not a manipulative tactic, it's actual product improvement. If you don't care for Disney to begin with that is fine, but I think the tracking absolutely can bring benefit to the entertainment value of the trip if you are a fan of the parks. I like having my ride photos automatically show up in my account and having my lunch pickup order come out with impeccable timing. I'm not saying Disney doesn't also play psychological tricks to get you to buy more, and probably they are using personalized info for that. I'm just saying "it doesn't bring benefit unless your goal is to be sold things based on being calculated" is not entirely true either. It does improve things you are already paying for like how efficiently you can plan your activities each day in the parks.
- graphe 4y ago
  Thanks I haven't been to Disneyland in a long time. I'm so used to seeing tracking with no benefits I didn't believe it could be used in a way that a customer like yourself defends it and says it has uses you benefit from.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > it's not a manipulative tactic, it's actual product improvement. Such things can be, and often are, both.