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I keep arguing with you because I feel ignored and invalidated by each of your responses. > None of them will become less emotionally stunted by gamifying thei

I keep arguing with you because I feel ignored and invalidated by each of your responses. > None of them will become less emotionally stunted by gamifying their social skills. Who said anything about gamifying social skill? I'm talking about: * Learning to talk to people For example, perspective-taking or learning about the 5 levels of conversation [1]. * Learn to understand your own emotions For example, Why you don't feel anything [2] * Learn to trust other people For example, Why authenticity/vulnerability is vital for connecting with others [3] I'm sad that your only experiences with people attempting to improve their social skills were cliched or in the PUA community, but there ARE real resources out there that will help. I'm happy for you, and I'm glad you're trying to share what you've learned, but again "get lucky by being in close proximity to someone who knows this stuff" is not a repeatable strategy. [1] https://www.habitsforwellbeing.com/five-levels-communication/ https://www.habitsforwellbeing.com/five-levels-communication... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pQBdZ3RdfA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pQBdZ3RdfA [3] https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability

vinceguidry 4y ago
> again "get lucky by being in close proximity to someone who knows this stuff" is not a repeatable strategy. Of course it is. Everywhere has highly social people you can watch and learn from. My apologies. I really only try to have rational conversations on the Internet, particularly in places like Hacker News. I do not know you or how best to empathize with you. Everybody is very different. After years of trying, I've learned to let go of the need. Your examples of resources are interesting. Had you led with those first instead of attacking my capacity for empathy, I would have understood better what you meant by skills. I wish you a pleasant Wednesday.
- solarmist 4y ago
  My bad. You're right; the first part was unnecessary, and I've removed it. I apologize. That said, it wouldn't have felt necessary if you hadn't constantly dismissed and belittled the idea that social skills can be constructively and explicitly learned. Also, I worded the second bit badly. It is repeatable (perhaps even for most people), but it is not a blanket strategy. It requires letting go of a fair bit of fear and distrust of others to get to the point where I could have implemented this. And during that time, the people I attracted and spent time with were the ones who responded to my cautious and closed-off personality. In my twenties, I would literally be spooked if someone got mad at me. I just couldn't process it. As you said in your initial comment: > I can say that it is not pleasant to be around people when the conversation feels forced or awkward. So my social skills actively reduced the odds I would meet people like you. In fact, my best friend for years eventually stopped talking to me because his now wife thought like you and couldn't stand being around me.
  - vinceguidry 4y ago
    Look, I am a rank asshole if I try to deny your lived experience. So rather than that, we discuss the conclusions we each may have gotten from those experience. You felt dismissed and belittled even though I was doing my best to share my own experiences to support my conclusions, and it's hard for me to feel responsible for that. Any discussion, particularly online, is going to involve misinterpretation. You're not in front of me, I can't use my usual tools of mirroring, tone, emoting somatically, observing your reaction to each statement, etc etc etc. This is online. It only works if you assume good intent. Now that you've explained your position adequately, I can see where you're coming from. I merely wish that you could have simply, in the very first reply where you were articulating your position, given examples of skill approaches that have helped you personally. This means I have to consider it carefully because, again, your lived experience is to be validated and believed. And maybe taken my own personal sharing as in the same vein of trying to articulate towards why I feel the way I do. Now I'll say that I've learned a great deal from this discussion, and thank you for participating in it with me. I can certainly see now that there are resources that can bring people from a very negative place to a reasonable one quickly. I'm glad you were able to share enough personal experience to help me to see your point of view.
    - solarmist 4y ago
      I wish I could've been succinct, but it was only through progressive iteration that I could narrow down the exact thing that was getting under my skin and give relevant examples (I've read hundreds of self-help books that were absolute garbage but had useful tidbits here and there). Unfortunately, in my experience, the process contributes greatly to the quality of the result. So I thank you for continuing to act with and assume good intent until we reached this point.

vinceguidry 4y ago

> again "get lucky by being in close proximity to someone who knows this stuff" is not a repeatable strategy. Of course it is. Everywhere has highly social people you can watch and learn from. My apologies. I really only try to have rational conversations on the Internet, particularly in places like Hacker News. I do not know you or how best to empathize with you. Everybody is very different. After years of trying, I've learned to let go of the need. Your examples of resources are interesting. Had you led with those first instead of attacking my capacity for empathy, I would have understood better what you meant by skills. I wish you a pleasant Wednesday.

solarmist 4y ago
My bad. You're right; the first part was unnecessary, and I've removed it. I apologize. That said, it wouldn't have felt necessary if you hadn't constantly dismissed and belittled the idea that social skills can be constructively and explicitly learned. Also, I worded the second bit badly. It is repeatable (perhaps even for most people), but it is not a blanket strategy. It requires letting go of a fair bit of fear and distrust of others to get to the point where I could have implemented this. And during that time, the people I attracted and spent time with were the ones who responded to my cautious and closed-off personality. In my twenties, I would literally be spooked if someone got mad at me. I just couldn't process it. As you said in your initial comment: > I can say that it is not pleasant to be around people when the conversation feels forced or awkward. So my social skills actively reduced the odds I would meet people like you. In fact, my best friend for years eventually stopped talking to me because his now wife thought like you and couldn't stand being around me.
- vinceguidry 4y ago
  Look, I am a rank asshole if I try to deny your lived experience. So rather than that, we discuss the conclusions we each may have gotten from those experience. You felt dismissed and belittled even though I was doing my best to share my own experiences to support my conclusions, and it's hard for me to feel responsible for that. Any discussion, particularly online, is going to involve misinterpretation. You're not in front of me, I can't use my usual tools of mirroring, tone, emoting somatically, observing your reaction to each statement, etc etc etc. This is online. It only works if you assume good intent. Now that you've explained your position adequately, I can see where you're coming from. I merely wish that you could have simply, in the very first reply where you were articulating your position, given examples of skill approaches that have helped you personally. This means I have to consider it carefully because, again, your lived experience is to be validated and believed. And maybe taken my own personal sharing as in the same vein of trying to articulate towards why I feel the way I do. Now I'll say that I've learned a great deal from this discussion, and thank you for participating in it with me. I can certainly see now that there are resources that can bring people from a very negative place to a reasonable one quickly. I'm glad you were able to share enough personal experience to help me to see your point of view.
  - solarmist 4y ago
    I wish I could've been succinct, but it was only through progressive iteration that I could narrow down the exact thing that was getting under my skin and give relevant examples (I've read hundreds of self-help books that were absolute garbage but had useful tidbits here and there). Unfortunately, in my experience, the process contributes greatly to the quality of the result. So I thank you for continuing to act with and assume good intent until we reached this point.