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I would say that anybody without an intellectual disability can learn college algebra. There is a lack of motivation and a lack of training that prevents people

I would say that anybody without an intellectual disability can learn college algebra. There is a lack of motivation and a lack of training that prevents people from succeeding.

naasking 4y ago
> I would say that anybody without an intellectual disability can learn college algebra. I think that's a stretch, unless you expand the meaning of "intellectual disability". I would agree that considerably more people can succeed than currently do because effort can make up for a lot, but that's a different claim. People have different working memory capacity, different abilities to reason deductively and considerably more differences on various other metrics of cognitive performance. There are as many dimensions to cognitive performance as there are ways to measure athletic performance, and people fall on very different parts of this spectrum. With significant effort over time, I can make up for athletic deficiencies and become a pretty good basketball player, but being 5'9" I almost certainly would never be able to make a college basketball team let alone the NBA. I'm not sure why this same logic applied to cognitive abilities is so controversial.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  > I think that's a stretch Not at all. In my experience, many people of mediocre intelligence but a background that has sufficient education think they're geniuses. The variability in intelligence achievable by tutoring vastly exceeds the difference in their intelligence vs. that of the average inner-city high school dropout without a disability. > People have different working memory capacity Multiple studies have shown how this is easy to train. > different abilities to reason deductively This is also very easy to train by example. > I almost certainly would never be able to make a college basketball team let alone the NBA Being able to do college algebra isn't equivalent to making the NBA, which means being in the top fraction of a percent in basketball ability. Being able to do college algebra is equivalent to being able to dribble.
  - naasking 4y ago
    > Multiple studies have shown how this is easy to train. Running ability is also easy to train, that doesn't mean everyone can run a marathon. Some people have flat feet or poorly proportioned limbs unsuited to long-term running. These aren't disabilities preventing them partaking in such activities, but nevertheless limits their potential. > Being able to do college algebra is equivalent to being able to dribble. No, it's being able to at least dunk. Again, a common skill but not one everyone can achieve.
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      > Running ability is also easy to train, that doesn't mean everyone can run a marathon. Everybody without a disability can run a 5k. High schools used to require students to do a mile run to pass physical education. > Some people have flat feet or poorly proportioned limbs unsuited to long-term running. And some people have microencephaly. We're not talking about outliers. We're talking about the vast majority of people. > No, it's being able to at least dunk. Look, you're not special for being able to learn college algebra. 95% of Koreans and Singaporeans can do it today, but this wasn't the case 60 years ago. It just requires a basic level of education.
      - naasking 4y ago
        > And some people have microencephaly. We're not talking about outliers. We're talking about the vast majority of people. No, you specifically said "people without a disability". Unless you're going to expand the meaning of "disability", various permutations within the range of "normal" physical characteristics will impose different limits on athletic abilities, and analogously, the range of cognitive qualities (memory, focus, spatial reasoning, etc.) will do the same for cognitive tasks. The fact that these qualities can be improved via training doesn't change the basic fact that those limits will be quite different for different people, even within the normal range. We can quibble all day about whether college algebra falls under that category, but this basic fact won't change.
        4y ago

I would say that anybody without an intellectual disability can learn college algebra. There is a lack of motivation and a lack of training that prevents people from succeeding.

naasking 4y ago

> I would say that anybody without an intellectual disability can learn college algebra. I think that's a stretch, unless you expand the meaning of "intellectual disability". I would agree that considerably more people can succeed than currently do because effort can make up for a lot, but that's a different claim. People have different working memory capacity, different abilities to reason deductively and considerably more differences on various other metrics of cognitive performance. There are as many dimensions to cognitive performance as there are ways to measure athletic performance, and people fall on very different parts of this spectrum. With significant effort over time, I can make up for athletic deficiencies and become a pretty good basketball player, but being 5'9" I almost certainly would never be able to make a college basketball team let alone the NBA. I'm not sure why this same logic applied to cognitive abilities is so controversial.

lern_too_spel 4y ago
> I think that's a stretch Not at all. In my experience, many people of mediocre intelligence but a background that has sufficient education think they're geniuses. The variability in intelligence achievable by tutoring vastly exceeds the difference in their intelligence vs. that of the average inner-city high school dropout without a disability. > People have different working memory capacity Multiple studies have shown how this is easy to train. > different abilities to reason deductively This is also very easy to train by example. > I almost certainly would never be able to make a college basketball team let alone the NBA Being able to do college algebra isn't equivalent to making the NBA, which means being in the top fraction of a percent in basketball ability. Being able to do college algebra is equivalent to being able to dribble.
- naasking 4y ago
  > Multiple studies have shown how this is easy to train. Running ability is also easy to train, that doesn't mean everyone can run a marathon. Some people have flat feet or poorly proportioned limbs unsuited to long-term running. These aren't disabilities preventing them partaking in such activities, but nevertheless limits their potential. > Being able to do college algebra is equivalent to being able to dribble. No, it's being able to at least dunk. Again, a common skill but not one everyone can achieve.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    > Running ability is also easy to train, that doesn't mean everyone can run a marathon. Everybody without a disability can run a 5k. High schools used to require students to do a mile run to pass physical education. > Some people have flat feet or poorly proportioned limbs unsuited to long-term running. And some people have microencephaly. We're not talking about outliers. We're talking about the vast majority of people. > No, it's being able to at least dunk. Look, you're not special for being able to learn college algebra. 95% of Koreans and Singaporeans can do it today, but this wasn't the case 60 years ago. It just requires a basic level of education.
    - naasking 4y ago
      > And some people have microencephaly. We're not talking about outliers. We're talking about the vast majority of people. No, you specifically said "people without a disability". Unless you're going to expand the meaning of "disability", various permutations within the range of "normal" physical characteristics will impose different limits on athletic abilities, and analogously, the range of cognitive qualities (memory, focus, spatial reasoning, etc.) will do the same for cognitive tasks. The fact that these qualities can be improved via training doesn't change the basic fact that those limits will be quite different for different people, even within the normal range. We can quibble all day about whether college algebra falls under that category, but this basic fact won't change.
      - 4y ago