5 ms·

>> LGBTQ is a minority Nope. The number of letters keeps increasing as more people are brought in. In schools these days it's trendy to be anything but straig

>> LGBTQ is a minority Nope. The number of letters keeps increasing as more people are brought in. In schools these days it's trendy to be anything but straight.

undersuit 4y ago
LGBTQ isn't a choice, stop peddling this falsehood.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  The actual traits described are not a choice, but identifying as part of the LGBTQ culture absolutely is. Not everyone is comfortable advertising their sexuality to strangers.
  - undersuit 4y ago
    >Not everyone is comfortable advertising their sexuality to strangers. Is that possibly because of the Traditional dominant culture?
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      Do you think only the 'traditional dominant culture' has a desire for personal privacy? I tend to view privacy as more fundamental, and in my experience most people want a good amount of it. I do not feel unique when I say that regardless of who I am attracted to and/or having sexual relations with (or nobody at all), this is only my business (and my partner, if they exist). I can name a number of people in my family who are openly gay but not politically active. If you asked them if they identified as LGBTQ+ they would probably say "sure" but they don't wave flags, have stickers, clothes, or anything else proclaiming their sexuality. They're not trying to hide it (as if that were possible, they're all married to partners of the same sex), but it isn't a fundamental part of how they interact with the world. And I know people in my family who are quietly bisexual or gay, too. Plenty of folks would accuse them of being in the closet, as if that were bad (because they should want to advertise it, right?). It must be fear of bigotry that keeps them in the closet, right? In my experience, no, they aren't actively hiding anything, not using subterfuge to make people think they are straight, they just keep their sexuality to themselves.
      - undersuit 4y ago
        Trads are perfectly fine advertising their sexuality to strangers. Some wear pants, some wear dresses.
- refuse 4y ago
  I've heard a good part of younger generations think differently. I get the impression the pride thing represents more than sexuality to kids who don't share the same context as older generations. They almost treat it like a brand.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    I agree 100%. I have two middle school-age kids, only one of whom has entered puberty but both have extensive thoughts on what LGBT(+) means. I do a lot of smiling and nodding, and just listening, because they really see it quite differently than any adult I have met. It's very much become an entire culture that is only loosely related to actual sexuality. I am very interested to see how it plays out with my kids as they mature, and as their cohort matures into adulthood. It's fascinating, a little overwhelming perhaps, but not particularly threatening. They aren't at all militant, and I don't know if that's an age thing, or if the culture is evolving away from it.
- factsarelolz 4y ago
  [dead]
- rngname22 4y ago
  Sexuality seems to not be a choice, but gender expression (which people sort of mentally lump in) can be a choice (obviously gender dysphoria is not a choice, but not all gender expression decisions are made due to the presence of absence of dysphoria).
  - undersuit 4y ago
    Expression is a choice, gender or otherwise. Why would one person's expression be any more or less valid than someone else's? Because it's icky?
    - rngname22 4y ago
      I don't understand what point you're trying to make / what the relevance of this comment is.
      - undersuit 4y ago
        Maybe cause you don't understand I was replying to a bigot.
Shared404 4y ago
Context: Am LGBTQ person who also has traditional religious views. Big disagree. You carry a pride flag in the wrong parts of town where I am, you'll get beat up. Walk around preaching hellfire and damnation and at most you'll get a lot of annoyed looks and at best you'll get people cheering you on. > In schools these days it's trendy to be anything but straight. In high schools in my town people get beat up for coming out. A friend who went to college out of state was mocked because people thought he was gay, despite him being straight. Also, you appear to have a misconception of what the LGBTQ acronym includes. LGBA - these are related to attraction. TI - These are for Trans/Intersex individuals and have nothing to do with attraction. Q - Questioning/Queer. Can be used by those who don't feel as though they are properly described by the above descriptions, or who are opposed to them for some reason. There are other letters, but for the most part they are subsets/synonyms of the above labels, at least as far as the use case here is concerned.
- Dig1t 4y ago
  Yeah it seems you can have wildly different experiences depending on where you live in the US. Probably why we are so politically divided, at this point we're living in different societies. Anywhere in California you would not experience any of that. In fact it really is as OP describes. Look at polls of kids in elementary schools where 50%+ of young kids are identifying as non-binary because it is trendy.
  - weakfish 4y ago
    I simply don’t believe those polls exist. Source?
  - skyyler 4y ago
    >Anywhere in California you would not experience any of that Hello, I have a close friend that was jumped by a small group of people for holding hands with his boyfriend. He was hospitalized. This was in Oakland in 2015. But even then, there's a lot more to California than the Bay Area and LA. I don't feel very safe being trans and living in Lake County, but I can't afford the Bay Area anymore. So I just don't go outside anymore.
rootusrootus 4y ago
> The number of letters keeps increasing Indeed, I now hear acquaintances on the right referring to them derisively as the 'alphabet mafia.' I wonder if maybe it's gotten meaningless when there are so many letters. Sometimes I see "+" used instead, after the first few letters. In that case, do the members of the groups that come after feel marginalized compared to the big ones that make up the first few letters? And what about the people who self-identify as one of the groups but don't want to advertise it as their defining characteristic? What do they do? That's a hard one, I think there are quite a lot of people that are in that situation. I suppose the holy grail will be if/when we just decide that such labels don't matter.
- Shared404 4y ago
  For me, it's nice to see the full acronym in places where it makes sense or are already LGBTQ focused. Outside of those spaces, I generally prefer LGBTQ or LGBTQ+ for that reason. That holy grail would be nice to reach some day. For those looking on and saying "well, you're doing it to yourselves": The answer is that currently we _have_ to do it because any many parts of the USA/world people who fall under that umbrella aren't able to live in a way that brings them joy. As such, they need a banner to organize under and belong with. Once that need passes eventually so will the labels.
- ColonelPhantom 4y ago
  > Indeed, I now hear acquaintances on the right referring to them derisively as the 'alphabet mafia.' I wonder if maybe it's gotten meaningless when there are so many letters. Is Christianity also meaningless then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denomination...
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
Despite the number of letters increasing, it's still a minority. Additionally, the rate of popularity is slowing. I am still on the fence whether or not this is a left-handedness situation. (The number of people who are left-handed sharply increased within 1-2 generations once we stopped beating children for primarily using their left hands. But this was generally not considered a social contagion or some grooming behavior from left-handed teachers or something.) If it is, then we should see identification level out within a generation or two.
weakfish 4y ago
That’s just plain false. I got bullied for just appearing queer by stereotype (painting my nails black) in high school, ~4 years ago.

>> LGBTQ is a minority Nope. The number of letters keeps increasing as more people are brought in. In schools these days it's trendy to be anything but straight.

undersuit 4y ago

LGBTQ isn't a choice, stop peddling this falsehood.

rootusrootus 4y ago
The actual traits described are not a choice, but identifying as part of the LGBTQ culture absolutely is. Not everyone is comfortable advertising their sexuality to strangers.
- undersuit 4y ago
  >Not everyone is comfortable advertising their sexuality to strangers. Is that possibly because of the Traditional dominant culture?
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    Do you think only the 'traditional dominant culture' has a desire for personal privacy? I tend to view privacy as more fundamental, and in my experience most people want a good amount of it. I do not feel unique when I say that regardless of who I am attracted to and/or having sexual relations with (or nobody at all), this is only my business (and my partner, if they exist). I can name a number of people in my family who are openly gay but not politically active. If you asked them if they identified as LGBTQ+ they would probably say "sure" but they don't wave flags, have stickers, clothes, or anything else proclaiming their sexuality. They're not trying to hide it (as if that were possible, they're all married to partners of the same sex), but it isn't a fundamental part of how they interact with the world. And I know people in my family who are quietly bisexual or gay, too. Plenty of folks would accuse them of being in the closet, as if that were bad (because they should want to advertise it, right?). It must be fear of bigotry that keeps them in the closet, right? In my experience, no, they aren't actively hiding anything, not using subterfuge to make people think they are straight, they just keep their sexuality to themselves.
    - undersuit 4y ago
      Trads are perfectly fine advertising their sexuality to strangers. Some wear pants, some wear dresses.
refuse 4y ago
I've heard a good part of younger generations think differently. I get the impression the pride thing represents more than sexuality to kids who don't share the same context as older generations. They almost treat it like a brand.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  I agree 100%. I have two middle school-age kids, only one of whom has entered puberty but both have extensive thoughts on what LGBT(+) means. I do a lot of smiling and nodding, and just listening, because they really see it quite differently than any adult I have met. It's very much become an entire culture that is only loosely related to actual sexuality. I am very interested to see how it plays out with my kids as they mature, and as their cohort matures into adulthood. It's fascinating, a little overwhelming perhaps, but not particularly threatening. They aren't at all militant, and I don't know if that's an age thing, or if the culture is evolving away from it.
factsarelolz 4y ago
[dead]
rngname22 4y ago
Sexuality seems to not be a choice, but gender expression (which people sort of mentally lump in) can be a choice (obviously gender dysphoria is not a choice, but not all gender expression decisions are made due to the presence of absence of dysphoria).
- undersuit 4y ago
  Expression is a choice, gender or otherwise. Why would one person's expression be any more or less valid than someone else's? Because it's icky?
  - rngname22 4y ago
    I don't understand what point you're trying to make / what the relevance of this comment is.
    - undersuit 4y ago
      Maybe cause you don't understand I was replying to a bigot.

Shared404 4y ago

Context: Am LGBTQ person who also has traditional religious views. Big disagree. You carry a pride flag in the wrong parts of town where I am, you'll get beat up. Walk around preaching hellfire and damnation and at most you'll get a lot of annoyed looks and at best you'll get people cheering you on. > In schools these days it's trendy to be anything but straight. In high schools in my town people get beat up for coming out. A friend who went to college out of state was mocked because people thought he was gay, despite him being straight. Also, you appear to have a misconception of what the LGBTQ acronym includes. LGBA - these are related to attraction. TI - These are for Trans/Intersex individuals and have nothing to do with attraction. Q - Questioning/Queer. Can be used by those who don't feel as though they are properly described by the above descriptions, or who are opposed to them for some reason. There are other letters, but for the most part they are subsets/synonyms of the above labels, at least as far as the use case here is concerned.

Dig1t 4y ago
Yeah it seems you can have wildly different experiences depending on where you live in the US. Probably why we are so politically divided, at this point we're living in different societies. Anywhere in California you would not experience any of that. In fact it really is as OP describes. Look at polls of kids in elementary schools where 50%+ of young kids are identifying as non-binary because it is trendy.
- weakfish 4y ago
  I simply don’t believe those polls exist. Source?
- skyyler 4y ago
  >Anywhere in California you would not experience any of that Hello, I have a close friend that was jumped by a small group of people for holding hands with his boyfriend. He was hospitalized. This was in Oakland in 2015. But even then, there's a lot more to California than the Bay Area and LA. I don't feel very safe being trans and living in Lake County, but I can't afford the Bay Area anymore. So I just don't go outside anymore.

rootusrootus 4y ago

> The number of letters keeps increasing Indeed, I now hear acquaintances on the right referring to them derisively as the 'alphabet mafia.' I wonder if maybe it's gotten meaningless when there are so many letters. Sometimes I see "+" used instead, after the first few letters. In that case, do the members of the groups that come after feel marginalized compared to the big ones that make up the first few letters? And what about the people who self-identify as one of the groups but don't want to advertise it as their defining characteristic? What do they do? That's a hard one, I think there are quite a lot of people that are in that situation. I suppose the holy grail will be if/when we just decide that such labels don't matter.

Shared404 4y ago
For me, it's nice to see the full acronym in places where it makes sense or are already LGBTQ focused. Outside of those spaces, I generally prefer LGBTQ or LGBTQ+ for that reason. That holy grail would be nice to reach some day. For those looking on and saying "well, you're doing it to yourselves": The answer is that currently we _have_ to do it because any many parts of the USA/world people who fall under that umbrella aren't able to live in a way that brings them joy. As such, they need a banner to organize under and belong with. Once that need passes eventually so will the labels.
ColonelPhantom 4y ago
> Indeed, I now hear acquaintances on the right referring to them derisively as the 'alphabet mafia.' I wonder if maybe it's gotten meaningless when there are so many letters. Is Christianity also meaningless then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denomination...

PuppyTailWags 4y ago

Despite the number of letters increasing, it's still a minority. Additionally, the rate of popularity is slowing. I am still on the fence whether or not this is a left-handedness situation. (The number of people who are left-handed sharply increased within 1-2 generations once we stopped beating children for primarily using their left hands. But this was generally not considered a social contagion or some grooming behavior from left-handed teachers or something.) If it is, then we should see identification level out within a generation or two.

weakfish 4y ago

That’s just plain false. I got bullied for just appearing queer by stereotype (painting my nails black) in high school, ~4 years ago.