10 ms·

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more

• irrational 4y ago
  It is a minority, but if I go into work and announce that I am trans and will now be transitioning and my name is now X, people will fall all over themselves be supportive and congratulating me. It literally happened recently when Chris became Christina at my work. But, if I come in and announce that I have decided to become Catholic or Evangelical or Mormon there will be a lot of awkward silence with maybe some "okaaaaayyy, anyway, let's continue with the planning for the next project..."
  • undersuit 4y ago
    Because no one needs to change the way they act around you. Christianity and Catholicism are strongly majority groups in the US. You were already treated as a Christian because that's what the majority of our society is based on.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • irrational 4y ago
      No, where I live you are considered to be a freak if you are religious. Announcing that you have joined a religion is like announcing you are trans in Alabama 50 years ago.
      • undersuit 4y ago
        OK, well I live in Montana and I still have arguments with people with Confederate state tattoos on their arms. Where do you live?
      • BobbyJo 4y ago
        Would you have a high likelihood of experiencing physical violence or death for being religious where you live? If not, then this is pointlessly hyperbolic.
        • irrational 4y ago
          No, but you would be discriminated against. Announcing you are religious would be the quickest way to be sidelined on projects and slowly forced out of the company. Announcing that your are LGBTQ is the quickest way to advance in the company and receive accolades. And this is a Fortune 100 company that nearly everyone on the planet has heard of. Where I live, LGBTQ is very much the mainstream and the most acceptable lifestyle.
          • BobbyJo 4y ago
            > No, but you would be discriminated against. That doesn't mean anything. Discrimination is a matter of degree. Everyone gets discriminated against pretty often to lesser degrees. If you tell me about your horoscope I'll roll my eyes and probably not want to hang out with you very much because of your spiritual beliefs. Are people refusing to sell you good and services? Calling you names? Throwing bricks through your windows? Is it putting more of a damper on you living a happy life than the occasional moment of discomfort because someone thinks something you think is dumb? People think lots of my beliefs are dumb, and that's fine, as long as I can go about my day. > Announcing that your are LGBTQ is the quickest way to advance in the company and receive accolades. First, I doubt a gay new hire can reach C suite with nothing but a couple of rainbows and dildos for qualifications. Second, office politics are crappy, but you either cope or move on, with maybe a lawsuit if you have a legal leg to stand on.
        • Dig1t 4y ago
          Agree with the sibling you would have a much higher chance of being discriminated against. Particularly in an interview. If you were wearing a cross necklace or some other visible indicator of your membership in Christianity, you would be way more likely to be turned down for a job in the Bay Area. Same as you would have been discriminated against for being trans, gay, or black 30 years ago.
      • ROTMetro 4y ago
        No, what you experience is people who personally aren't pro-religion, often for reasons of personal experience. It's nothing like the brave people hosting home churches in China, or an even better example, the people telling their stories in the bible, where the entire culture/government and it's moral basis is against your religion.
      • ldh0011 4y ago
        This is patently absurd. I'm neither trans nor religious but hypothetically I'd much rather announce that I joined a religion anywhere in the US than announce being trans in the small town where my grandparents live today. Let alone Alabama 50 years ago. Yes in very progressive environments you will get more support for announcing the later but that's because being in the later group is actually a challenge while religion has built up a reputation for maligning groups of people for things out of their control and for generally anti-scientific beliefs. Being part of a group that largely denies evolution and climate change is obviously not going to grant you any favors in groups with an academic (especially STEM) background.
    • scottLobster 4y ago
      Or no one feels like it's a change worth celebrating, whereas there's a strong streak of culture (particularly in more liberal areas) that makes congratulating trans people on their transition/gay people coming out of the closet a social obligation even if you're neither trans nor gay. It's almost gotten to the level of congratulating a couple for having an infant. If you don't think it's worth celebrating you're seen as an asshole. My wife and I are fairly traditional in that I work full time and she's a housewife/mother. Most people are mildly surprised that she doesn't work, and there's definitely been the occasional awkward social interaction where she was clearly being judged by other women (notably non-parents) for that decision. This is in an extremely blue city, I imagine if we moved out even into the suburbs things would shift. Counter-culture is location-dependent.
    • User23 4y ago
      Catholic teaching is that men cannot become women and women cannot become men. Catholic teaching is that lying is sinful. Practicing the Catholic faith by saying "I'm sorry, but I can't 'use your pronouns' because that would be a lie by falsely saying you're a woman when you can't be" will get you reprimanded or fired at most any major US company.
      • ROTMetro 4y ago
        Do you cast judgement on people that color their hair when it gets gray? Do you cast judgement on people that try and change their body by dieting/exercising?
      • PuppyTailWags 4y ago
        I'm not catholic so please help me out here. If you cannot use requested pronouns, does your religion also ban you from using nicknames? Is it okay for you to be called User23? Is it okay to say someone's cat is cute even if you don't really care for cats? What do you do if your partner asks if they look good or bad in something?
        • User23 4y ago
          > I'm not catholic so please help me out here. These are all reasonable questions. I'll answer as best as I can, but please understand that I'm not any kind of formal authority. > If you cannot use requested pronouns, does your religion also ban you from using nicknames? Is it okay for you to be called User23? I don't know of any Catholic doctrine that says people can't use pseudonyms, nicknames, or even change their name altogether. > Is it okay to say someone's cat is cute even if you don't really care for cats? What do you do if your partner asks if they look good or bad in something? Is it a lie, which is to say a falsehood told with the intent to deceive? Then yes it's wrong. Wouldn't you want to be told the truth if you in fact looked bad? Wouldn't you want to know that when you're told that you look good that you really do? Personally, supposing I didn't think the cat was cute, I wouldn't say I thought it was. I would most likely treat it as a good opportunity to say nothing on the subject. Some theologians put forth a doctrine of "mental reservation"[1] which somehow makes lying OK, but I have to admit I'm not capable of the necessary mental gymnastics in any but the most clear cut cases. [1] https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10195b.htm https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10195b.htm
    • throwaway_l33t 4y ago
      > no one needs to change the way they act around you. This is only because Catholics and Christians often don’t mention when workplace behaviors make them uncomfortable. I’ve been in multiple situations where coworkers have used names of God as expletives or made jokes about things I consider holy. And if you’re a Catholic and “trad” and planning lunch with colleagues, things like “is it Friday” or “is it a Friday in Lent” would affect others (except that, today, there’s a lot of vegetarian options for independent reasons).
      • undersuit 4y ago
        Abstinence is a form of penance. Frankly if the office doesn't bend over backwards for your self-flagellation every week I'm OK with it. Are you demanding that the entire office fast with you if they can't find a pescatarian option?
        • throwaway_l33t 4y ago
          You missed the point: if I’m planning lunch with my friends and they want to go to barbecue on Friday, I’m going to be suggesting an alternative so I can get something to eat too. Just like we had to plan lunches around my Jain, Jewish and Muslim coworkers dietary restrictions. So, in fact, some people will have to do something different to include me in some of their activities.
          • undersuit 4y ago
            Just go to confession afterwards, it's not a carnal sin, and it would remove your self-imposed inconvenience on your coworkers.
      • ticviking 4y ago
        The Orthodox Christian fasting rules are complex enough that people have occasionally assumed I'm vegan because I am roughly 1/2 the days of the year. The other fun one is if you actually try and pray the hours and ask the same accommodations your Muslim colleagues receive so you can pray the office.
      • 4y ago
  • monero-xmr 4y ago
    At our haircut place there was a husband and wife that worked there, the husband became the wife and the wife became the husband! And I think the traditional people are doing so in much more subversive ways now - plenty of our friends are going private and Catholic school to get their kids out of the public schools, which are getting pretty wild in the indoctrination.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • BobbyJo 4y ago
    You becoming religious doesn't really concern them and isn't very noteworthy. Someone changing their gender identity is pretty surprising and asks that you change how you interact with them.
    • irrational 4y ago
      [flagged]
  • pocket_cheese 4y ago
    I've never had random people on the street threaten to beat my ass or make violent threats towards me before my transition, and now it happens a couple times a year. I also way to many trans friends that are homeless because their conservative parents disagreed. Across every single metric, trans people, especially trans POC face disproportionate adversity. i.e. income, murder rate, housing insecurity, education etc...
  • bongle 4y ago
    In a society that actually respected women, people would be falling over themselves to call out his misogynistic delusion that being a woman can amount to a thought in a man's head. But sadly not. That's male privilege for you.
    • undersuit 4y ago
      Oh, look a TERF wandered in from Twitter.
• korroziya 4y ago
  [flagged]
  • undersuit 4y ago
    > In a world where everyone wants to wear a non-conformist uniform, Trads are the new counter-culture. They're non-conformists because they wear conformist clothing? I'm not even going to address this "shoved" nonsense. No one shoved Tucker Carlson to go crazy about woke M&Ms.
  • flangola7 4y ago
    Because people are finally willing to speak up for their rights and let them be visible members of society?
    • rootusrootus 4y ago
      That's a little disingenuous. A lot of people are pushing for trans rights that goes well beyond being recognized as an equal member of society. There are 100% legitimate discussions to be had which get shouted down with accusations of bigotry.
      • undersuit 4y ago
        What goes beyond being recognized as an equal member? What discussions are being shouted down?
        • rootusrootus 4y ago
          An easy example is insisting that trans people be allowed to play in sports based only on their identified gender. We have separation between mens' and women's teams because in many cases men have a biological advantage that would mean women did not ever win. Insisting that an MTF woman be permitted to compete on equal footing somehow feels like offering equality to the trans person, but it does so at the expense of everyone else she competes against. A perfect example is the MMF fighter who as a man was decidedly mediocre, but absolutely dominated when fighting as a woman. That is grossly unfair to the women she was competing against. Trans supporters are fond of loudly, but falsely proclaiming anybody that holds this position is some kind of bigot. Except that biology is real and it is distinct from gender identification. Conflating them isn't helpful.
• phkahler 4y ago
  >> LGBTQ is a minority Nope. The number of letters keeps increasing as more people are brought in. In schools these days it's trendy to be anything but straight.
  • undersuit 4y ago
    LGBTQ isn't a choice, stop peddling this falsehood.
    • rootusrootus 4y ago
      The actual traits described are not a choice, but identifying as part of the LGBTQ culture absolutely is. Not everyone is comfortable advertising their sexuality to strangers.
      • undersuit 4y ago
        >Not everyone is comfortable advertising their sexuality to strangers. Is that possibly because of the Traditional dominant culture?
        • rootusrootus 4y ago
          Do you think only the 'traditional dominant culture' has a desire for personal privacy? I tend to view privacy as more fundamental, and in my experience most people want a good amount of it. I do not feel unique when I say that regardless of who I am attracted to and/or having sexual relations with (or nobody at all), this is only my business (and my partner, if they exist). I can name a number of people in my family who are openly gay but not politically active. If you asked them if they identified as LGBTQ+ they would probably say "sure" but they don't wave flags, have stickers, clothes, or anything else proclaiming their sexuality. They're not trying to hide it (as if that were possible, they're all married to partners of the same sex), but it isn't a fundamental part of how they interact with the world. And I know people in my family who are quietly bisexual or gay, too. Plenty of folks would accuse them of being in the closet, as if that were bad (because they should want to advertise it, right?). It must be fear of bigotry that keeps them in the closet, right? In my experience, no, they aren't actively hiding anything, not using subterfuge to make people think they are straight, they just keep their sexuality to themselves.
• jimbob45 4y ago
  [flagged]
  • kennyadam 4y ago
    [flagged]
  • undersuit 4y ago
    What is a women then?
    • rootusrootus 4y ago
      That just drives home the point that we need clear, universally accepted terminology for when we are referring to mental identity versus physical attributes. I feel like a large part of the disagreement on policies towards transgender people today are manifestations of this ambiguity. Other languages do a better job than English, for certain.
  • l33t233372 4y ago
    Do you not believe that trans women are women? Why?
    • gicif 4y ago
      [flagged]
• ss108 4y ago
  In my social mileu (highly and elite educated, coastal, etc) that's not accurate at all. I am literally the only one of my friends who adheres even partially to a traditional organized religion and believes in traditional values. My friends don't quite know what to do with this. Some are gay themselves, none of us think twice about it.
• Dig1t 4y ago
  >LGBTQ is a minority I mean yes, physically they are a minority. Culturally, they are incredibly mainstream. There are examples everywhere. There are tons of big movies and TV shows featuring gay people coming out. _Every_ company changes their logo during pride month. Look at the Apple Watch or iPhone, they come preloaded with Pride wallpapers and watch faces, they produce pride bands for the watch, which sell very well. Disneyland has Gay Days. Defcon has a massive attached event called Queercon that dwarfs all other subcons. Googlers who are gay are called Gayglers. So many famous actors and politicians are openly gay. Biden literally just did a major interview in the Whitehouse with a TikToker who's only claim to fame was making videos about becoming trans. I could list SO many more examples of this everywhere in our culture, and these are random things I could think of off the top of my head, but they are decent examples of culture I think. I don't have a problem with any of this, I think it's great. But there is absolutely no way you can claim that this is not the mainstream now. It sounds like you consider talking about trads that way to be dangerous, like it might bring them back or something.
  • undersuit 4y ago
    Trads never left. They are the majority.
    • ticviking 4y ago
      How many Christians do you know who fast, or pray the daily hours? How many who are devout enough to respond when someone takes the name of the Lord in vain? As a cultural stream "Trads" are definitely distinct from Conservative Protestantism or the evangelical movement.
      • undersuit 4y ago
        I've spent a good amount of time and effort distancing myself from religion and specifically Christianity for about 20 years. So 0.
        • ticviking 4y ago
• yucky 4y ago
  > I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Odd, I don't get that impression when I watch Netflix. Or consume any mainstream media for that matter.
• tonymet 4y ago
  Culture isn't uniform or static, and the expressed / visible culture is concentrated on a small minority that have more influence. The idea that LGBTQ is a minority in the population is true, but they are a plurality of contemporary expressed culture