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Google wills it so. Why? IDK, ask them. Probably yet another case of something net-harmful making them more money. Luckily it's also one of the only cases wher

Google wills it so. Why? IDK, ask them. Probably yet another case of something net-harmful making them more money. Luckily it's also one of the only cases where a microformat is actually nigh-universally used. Outside a few sites where the "fluff" isn't fluff and is actually good content itself (e.g. Serious Eats) I just throw the URL into Paprika 3 (no affiliation, and there are tons of other programs and probably some browser plugins to do the same thing) and let it strip it down to the ingredients and instructions by reading the microformat markup. Works flawlessly nearly every time. [EDIT] Credit where it's due, I'm also pretty sure the microformat is only popular because of Google. I think they downrank sites in recipe searches if Google can't "see" the recipe, using the microformat. They may be both the cause of, and solution to, the problem.

Justin_K 4y ago
Trying to mentally parse these long winded recipes = takes longer to read = "greater engagement". These crappy recipes are all about seo and add placement as you'll notice these recipes are loaded with Google ads. So it is a self fulfilling prophecy that the pages where users spend more time and see more ads are ranked highest.
- psychphysic 4y ago
  I suspect theres also a halo effect. Like how select cuts of beef slow roasted with veggies and served on a bed of glazed hand cut potatoes. Is more appealing to a potential cook than cut beef in a slow cooker with some wedges.
- treeman79 4y ago
  I’ve completely given up on web recipes, and only use YouTube ones now. Most of the good recipes have a comment that has a condensed version of ingredients and instructions.
jxdxbx 4y ago
Yes. I think Google deserves a ton of credit for microformats, and you can just use a browser extension like Repibox that shows you only the recipe when you go to a recipe site. I think the reason Google wanted microformats is for Google Assistant recipe answers.
thebricklayr 4y ago
Paprika is great, though Umami's importer is even better: https://www.umami.recipes https://www.umami.recipes Umami has Chrome/Firefox extensions that you can use while on desktop, which will sync your recipes to the app. Disclaimer: I built it :)
- OutThisLife 4y ago
  I just want to say that I really love your choice of colours and how they flow together. It's so satisfying
  - thebricklayr 4y ago
    Wow thank you! Fun fact: that orange color is actually part of the display-p3 color space: https://webkit.org/blog/10042/wide-gamut-color-in-css-with-display-p3/ https://webkit.org/blog/10042/wide-gamut-color-in-css-with-d... ^ Colors in that space only just recently started getting supported by displays/browsers. And while p3 colors work in css on Safari, I had to use a single-pixel background png to make it work in Chrome.
- Tams80 4y ago
  It may look better, but it's only available on iOS.
  - dunham 4y ago
    Yeah, doesn't look like it's available on M1 macs either, which I think think is just a checkbox in the app store.
    - thebricklayr 4y ago
      I tried that and it was super buggy... Thankfully I built the whole thing in SwiftUI so that I can port it to Mac fairly quickly. Moving as fast as I can!
  - thebricklayr 4y ago
johnfn 4y ago
Finding a result on Google, clicking on it, then leaving and clicking something else on Google means you probably didn't find the thing you were looking for. Staying on one site for a while probably means you found what you were using for. Presumably Google uses this information to try to determine if you engaged with the site, and then it ranks sites that you stay on longer higher in search results. This works great for things like StackOverflow posts where you can quickly judge if the answer is correct, and if it's not, you can quickly bounce. It's not great for recipes, which are almost always "correct" (in that they are a recipe of the type you're looking for), so spending longer probably just means you scrolled for longer.
- wobbly_bush 4y ago
  How does it interplay with opening multiple search results in new tabs at once? It's been ages since I've personally visited search results sequentially - I open them in batches.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    Not a problem, you're an outlier, the average user either doesn't use tabs or doesn't open multiple of them to let them load in the background because they haven't experienced the web on a modem and "I click, page loads in 1-5s, I read" is what they're used to.
    - jwestbury 4y ago
      Not sure experiencing the web on a modem is a real factor here. Anecdotally, at least, I've certainly experienced the web on a modem -- and living in a rural area, broadband wasn't available for me until maybe 2005-2006 (and even then, only 1.5Mbps until around 2014) -- but I open multiple tabs not to let them load in the background, but to avoid unnecessary context switches. I can load ten tabs async, never context-switch, and then process the tabs one by one. Half the context switches of opening a page, going back, etc.
      - 4y ago
unixlikeposting 4y ago
this smells entirely like the notorious 10-minute youtube monetization switch. longer times on a page means longer enagement == more ads revenue. is it possible that google is incentivizing longer engagements via adwords by using search priority that ranks by average time spent on page?
coding123 4y ago
I wonder when microformats are going to die now that we have gpt
chasd00 4y ago
i just print them out so I can refer to the recipe when my fingers are wet/sticky while preparing the meal.
cobaltoxide 4y ago
What is the microformat? Does it have a name or do you have a link?
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  I think it's mainly h-recipe: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-recipe http://microformats.org/wiki/h-recipe But it looks like there might be one or two others active in the wild.
looseyesterday 4y ago
[dead]
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> Google wills it so. Why? IDK, ask them. Google presents what its customers (people doing searches) want to see, so shouldn't we ask the people who click the results that make it to the top (whether they leave the page dissatisfied or not is a different story, right?) over and over? What incentive does Google have for prioritizing succinct quality posts versus blogspam posts? What incentive does Google have for prioritizing blogspam posts over succinct quality posts? Why is it the way it is if we're talking about the unsponsored (not paid) organic results? As a blogspam author, why do you want people on your page? To get more AdSense views/impressions? You typically aren't selling anything on a website that gives away free long-winded recipes (so conversion rate/cost per click/paid advertising isn't really a concern?)
- lmkg 4y ago
  > Google presents what its customers (people doing searches) want to see Google presents what it thinks people want to see, which it infers based on some number it can collect, like time-on-page, or scroll depth. The argument is that its proxy metrics for "the user liked this" are ill-considered, especially in this particular context. Even when Google acts like a rational actor, it is not an oracle. It rationally optimizes an observable metric, which may or may not correlate to its actual goal.
sandos 4y ago
I assume thats how Google Nest Hub can parse recpies into actual steps with a button or voice command to step forward!
_tom_ 4y ago
I have no direct knowledge, but Google is known to penalize duplicate pages. Without the lead in, one bread recipe is pretty much the same page as 1,000 others.

Justin_K 4y ago

Trying to mentally parse these long winded recipes = takes longer to read = "greater engagement". These crappy recipes are all about seo and add placement as you'll notice these recipes are loaded with Google ads. So it is a self fulfilling prophecy that the pages where users spend more time and see more ads are ranked highest.

psychphysic 4y ago
I suspect theres also a halo effect. Like how select cuts of beef slow roasted with veggies and served on a bed of glazed hand cut potatoes. Is more appealing to a potential cook than cut beef in a slow cooker with some wedges.
treeman79 4y ago
I’ve completely given up on web recipes, and only use YouTube ones now. Most of the good recipes have a comment that has a condensed version of ingredients and instructions.

jxdxbx 4y ago

Yes. I think Google deserves a ton of credit for microformats, and you can just use a browser extension like Repibox that shows you only the recipe when you go to a recipe site. I think the reason Google wanted microformats is for Google Assistant recipe answers.

thebricklayr 4y ago

Paprika is great, though Umami's importer is even better: https://www.umami.recipes https://www.umami.recipes Umami has Chrome/Firefox extensions that you can use while on desktop, which will sync your recipes to the app. Disclaimer: I built it :)

OutThisLife 4y ago
I just want to say that I really love your choice of colours and how they flow together. It's so satisfying
- thebricklayr 4y ago
  Wow thank you! Fun fact: that orange color is actually part of the display-p3 color space: https://webkit.org/blog/10042/wide-gamut-color-in-css-with-display-p3/ https://webkit.org/blog/10042/wide-gamut-color-in-css-with-d... ^ Colors in that space only just recently started getting supported by displays/browsers. And while p3 colors work in css on Safari, I had to use a single-pixel background png to make it work in Chrome.
Tams80 4y ago
It may look better, but it's only available on iOS.
- dunham 4y ago
  Yeah, doesn't look like it's available on M1 macs either, which I think think is just a checkbox in the app store.
  - thebricklayr 4y ago
    I tried that and it was super buggy... Thankfully I built the whole thing in SwiftUI so that I can port it to Mac fairly quickly. Moving as fast as I can!
- thebricklayr 4y ago

johnfn 4y ago

Finding a result on Google, clicking on it, then leaving and clicking something else on Google means you probably didn't find the thing you were looking for. Staying on one site for a while probably means you found what you were using for. Presumably Google uses this information to try to determine if you engaged with the site, and then it ranks sites that you stay on longer higher in search results. This works great for things like StackOverflow posts where you can quickly judge if the answer is correct, and if it's not, you can quickly bounce. It's not great for recipes, which are almost always "correct" (in that they are a recipe of the type you're looking for), so spending longer probably just means you scrolled for longer.

wobbly_bush 4y ago
How does it interplay with opening multiple search results in new tabs at once? It's been ages since I've personally visited search results sequentially - I open them in batches.
- luckylion 4y ago
  Not a problem, you're an outlier, the average user either doesn't use tabs or doesn't open multiple of them to let them load in the background because they haven't experienced the web on a modem and "I click, page loads in 1-5s, I read" is what they're used to.
  - jwestbury 4y ago
    Not sure experiencing the web on a modem is a real factor here. Anecdotally, at least, I've certainly experienced the web on a modem -- and living in a rural area, broadband wasn't available for me until maybe 2005-2006 (and even then, only 1.5Mbps until around 2014) -- but I open multiple tabs not to let them load in the background, but to avoid unnecessary context switches. I can load ten tabs async, never context-switch, and then process the tabs one by one. Half the context switches of opening a page, going back, etc.
    - 4y ago

unixlikeposting 4y ago

this smells entirely like the notorious 10-minute youtube monetization switch. longer times on a page means longer enagement == more ads revenue. is it possible that google is incentivizing longer engagements via adwords by using search priority that ranks by average time spent on page?

coding123 4y ago

I wonder when microformats are going to die now that we have gpt

chasd00 4y ago

i just print them out so I can refer to the recipe when my fingers are wet/sticky while preparing the meal.

cobaltoxide 4y ago

What is the microformat? Does it have a name or do you have a link?

yamtaddle 4y ago
I think it's mainly h-recipe: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-recipe http://microformats.org/wiki/h-recipe But it looks like there might be one or two others active in the wild.

looseyesterday 4y ago

[dead]

MuffinFlavored 4y ago

> Google wills it so. Why? IDK, ask them. Google presents what its customers (people doing searches) want to see, so shouldn't we ask the people who click the results that make it to the top (whether they leave the page dissatisfied or not is a different story, right?) over and over? What incentive does Google have for prioritizing succinct quality posts versus blogspam posts? What incentive does Google have for prioritizing blogspam posts over succinct quality posts? Why is it the way it is if we're talking about the unsponsored (not paid) organic results? As a blogspam author, why do you want people on your page? To get more AdSense views/impressions? You typically aren't selling anything on a website that gives away free long-winded recipes (so conversion rate/cost per click/paid advertising isn't really a concern?)

lmkg 4y ago
> Google presents what its customers (people doing searches) want to see Google presents what it thinks people want to see, which it infers based on some number it can collect, like time-on-page, or scroll depth. The argument is that its proxy metrics for "the user liked this" are ill-considered, especially in this particular context. Even when Google acts like a rational actor, it is not an oracle. It rationally optimizes an observable metric, which may or may not correlate to its actual goal.

sandos 4y ago

I assume thats how Google Nest Hub can parse recpies into actual steps with a button or voice command to step forward!

_tom_ 4y ago

I have no direct knowledge, but Google is known to penalize duplicate pages. Without the lead in, one bread recipe is pretty much the same page as 1,000 others.