4 ms·

If it were the case, there would be no society with drugs and polyamory. Yet there are mormons, muslims, alchohol and cigarets. What you call anti-social, some

If it were the case, there would be no society with drugs and polyamory. Yet there are mormons, muslims, alchohol and cigarets. What you call anti-social, some other group call it life. And vice versa. A christian taboo or an american indulgence is not a universal construct. The same construct is not event stable throught time and extremely diverse and functioning social configurations have existed along history. Also, there is such thing as one that was so good that it lasted forever. No reference point to consider a standard. However, they are local norms and ignoring them will cause contextual mismatch. So indeed, an austistic person may fail to appreciate this and only see the arbitrary aspect of it, and cause trouble.

jack_pp 4y ago
Coffee and cigarettes improve productivity not reduce it. Heavy alcohol consumption will get you in trouble, could even get you in jail. Muslims are not as a rule poly amorous. Only a select few. Mormons are a very very small portion of society. Through millennia of cultural iteration we have arrived at monogamy and for good reason. You can already see what a society without monogamy is starting to look like. Thanks to Tinder, birth control and degradation of family values you get a lot of single mothers and 'incels' that have little to no incentive to contribute to society and every incentive to play video games and waste their life away. All from the fact that a few man have sex with all the women and society accepts it
- 4ggr0 4y ago
  > Coffee and cigarettes improve productivity not reduce it. Heavy alcohol consumption will get you in trouble, could even get you in jail. On the other hand one beer calms me down a bit and too much coffee means that I'm a nervous wreck. Three puffs of a cigarette and I have to sit down. Don't really get your point.
  - haswell 4y ago
    To me, the point is that the claim "drugs are bad for society" is a problematic claim. Both from the standpoint that the word "drugs" is poorly defined when in reality there exists a broad spectrum of drugs/effects, and because to your point, the experience of using these drugs is subjective/varied, and can't be considered universally "good" or "bad".
  - jack_pp 4y ago
    You're gonna fall ill or die if you drink too much water. If you know too much coffee is bad for you why on earth would you even drink so much after the first couple of experiments?
rayiner 4y ago
> If it were the case, there would be no society with drugs and polyamory. There are virtually no societies that embrace drugs and polyamory. Some highly individualistic societies tolerate both in the sense that they condone pursuit of individual satisfaction without regard to social utility. But virtually no society treats those things as virtuous, pro-social behaviors. > What you call anti-social, some other group call it life. You can call it “life” (I.e. the pursuit of personal satisfaction) but it’s still anti-social. Using drugs or having multiple partners might feel good to you individually, but it has only negative externalities on society at large. That’s pretty much the definition of anti-social. > A christian taboo or an american indulgence is not a universal construct. These rules aren’t “Christian” taboos. Drug use and polyamory are frowned upon across the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. Even within Islam and Mormonism, polygamy is a historical practice that is sometimes tolerated for certain people but downplayed by the mainstream. Nor are those rules a matter of preference. Quite the opposite: they are nearly universal across diverse societies and cultures because they are rooted in physical, economic, and social realities. In that sense it’s similar to the rules that apply to economic transactions. Most societies discourage or ban various types of financial misconduct because they undermine the trust that enables markets to function. SBF’s financial crimes aren’t bad because some stone tablet says so. They’re bad because such conduct has a negative effect on society at large.
- haswell 4y ago
  > Using drugs or having multiple partners might feel good to you individually, but it has only negative externalities on society at large. That’s pretty much the definition of anti-social. Using sweeping terminology to dismiss drugs is problematic. Does your definition of anti-social drugs include legal drugs like alcohol and caffeine, partially illegal drugs like marijuana and psilocybin, etc? In what way is having multiple partners inherently harmful to society? You are stating these things as if they are self-evident truths, but that is far from the case, such sweeping claims need some pretty hefty backing. > Drug use and polyamory are frowned upon across the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. The prevalence of a social reflex is not sufficient to justify it (see: racism). Setting aside the overly broad definition of "drug use", why would such a default state about polyamory be inherently correct, both through history and into the future? One could speculate that such intuitions are primarily about one's personal notion of right and wrong, and for most folks that includes a deep sense of commitment to their partner. For the monogamist, the very idea that their partner could be participating with other partners is incompatible with their value system, and therefore they would never except that in a partner. And that's perfectly fine. But there are arguably social configurations that are perfectly compatible with polyamory. As long as all parties involved are on board, I see no further social harm unless you place particularly high value on procreation. As it often goes with religious arguments, one need not impose those beliefs on others, nor is the existence of people with other belief systems a problem purely on the basis that they are non-conforming.

jack_pp 4y ago

Coffee and cigarettes improve productivity not reduce it. Heavy alcohol consumption will get you in trouble, could even get you in jail. Muslims are not as a rule poly amorous. Only a select few. Mormons are a very very small portion of society. Through millennia of cultural iteration we have arrived at monogamy and for good reason. You can already see what a society without monogamy is starting to look like. Thanks to Tinder, birth control and degradation of family values you get a lot of single mothers and 'incels' that have little to no incentive to contribute to society and every incentive to play video games and waste their life away. All from the fact that a few man have sex with all the women and society accepts it

4ggr0 4y ago
> Coffee and cigarettes improve productivity not reduce it. Heavy alcohol consumption will get you in trouble, could even get you in jail. On the other hand one beer calms me down a bit and too much coffee means that I'm a nervous wreck. Three puffs of a cigarette and I have to sit down. Don't really get your point.
- haswell 4y ago
  To me, the point is that the claim "drugs are bad for society" is a problematic claim. Both from the standpoint that the word "drugs" is poorly defined when in reality there exists a broad spectrum of drugs/effects, and because to your point, the experience of using these drugs is subjective/varied, and can't be considered universally "good" or "bad".
- jack_pp 4y ago
  You're gonna fall ill or die if you drink too much water. If you know too much coffee is bad for you why on earth would you even drink so much after the first couple of experiments?

rayiner 4y ago

> If it were the case, there would be no society with drugs and polyamory. There are virtually no societies that embrace drugs and polyamory. Some highly individualistic societies tolerate both in the sense that they condone pursuit of individual satisfaction without regard to social utility. But virtually no society treats those things as virtuous, pro-social behaviors. > What you call anti-social, some other group call it life. You can call it “life” (I.e. the pursuit of personal satisfaction) but it’s still anti-social. Using drugs or having multiple partners might feel good to you individually, but it has only negative externalities on society at large. That’s pretty much the definition of anti-social. > A christian taboo or an american indulgence is not a universal construct. These rules aren’t “Christian” taboos. Drug use and polyamory are frowned upon across the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. Even within Islam and Mormonism, polygamy is a historical practice that is sometimes tolerated for certain people but downplayed by the mainstream. Nor are those rules a matter of preference. Quite the opposite: they are nearly universal across diverse societies and cultures because they are rooted in physical, economic, and social realities. In that sense it’s similar to the rules that apply to economic transactions. Most societies discourage or ban various types of financial misconduct because they undermine the trust that enables markets to function. SBF’s financial crimes aren’t bad because some stone tablet says so. They’re bad because such conduct has a negative effect on society at large.

haswell 4y ago
> Using drugs or having multiple partners might feel good to you individually, but it has only negative externalities on society at large. That’s pretty much the definition of anti-social. Using sweeping terminology to dismiss drugs is problematic. Does your definition of anti-social drugs include legal drugs like alcohol and caffeine, partially illegal drugs like marijuana and psilocybin, etc? In what way is having multiple partners inherently harmful to society? You are stating these things as if they are self-evident truths, but that is far from the case, such sweeping claims need some pretty hefty backing. > Drug use and polyamory are frowned upon across the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. The prevalence of a social reflex is not sufficient to justify it (see: racism). Setting aside the overly broad definition of "drug use", why would such a default state about polyamory be inherently correct, both through history and into the future? One could speculate that such intuitions are primarily about one's personal notion of right and wrong, and for most folks that includes a deep sense of commitment to their partner. For the monogamist, the very idea that their partner could be participating with other partners is incompatible with their value system, and therefore they would never except that in a partner. And that's perfectly fine. But there are arguably social configurations that are perfectly compatible with polyamory. As long as all parties involved are on board, I see no further social harm unless you place particularly high value on procreation. As it often goes with religious arguments, one need not impose those beliefs on others, nor is the existence of people with other belief systems a problem purely on the basis that they are non-conforming.