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Oh boy I'm very excited for a well articulated thread full of people who know about modern jet fighter combat and selection rather than a bunch of IT people who

Oh boy I'm very excited for a well articulated thread full of people who know about modern jet fighter combat and selection rather than a bunch of IT people who get everything they know from clickbait sites that cite RT contributors.

0xDEF 4y ago
Norwegian and Danish pilots and technicians love the F-35 and prefer it over the competition. It's very typical of tech people to think we know more than domain experts.
- belter 4y ago
  What is their opinion about being unable to go supersonic for more than short bursts currently classified as "will not fix"? [1] A hint they got from the world of software development clearly... :-) "...At extremely high altitudes, the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps’ versions of the F-35 jet can only fly at supersonic speeds for short bursts of time before there is a risk of structural damage and loss of stealth capability, a problem that may make it impossible for the Navy’s F-35C to conduct supersonic intercepts... The Defense Department does not intend to field a fix for the problem, which influences not only the F-35’s airframe and the low-observable coating that keeps it stealthy, but also the myriad antennas located on the back of the plane that are currently vulnerable to damage, according to documents exclusively obtained by Defense News... ...The F-35 Joint Program Office has classified the issues for the "B" and "C" models as separate category 1 deficiencies, indicating in one document that the problem presents a challenge to accomplishing one of the key missions of the fighter jet..." [1] - https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds...
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    As an interested layman I'd have thought, the higher, the better, because less friction. Now I'm wondering why. Because of lower outside air temperature, making some material expand/shrink too fast? Now I'm puzzled. Does this mean it can't go (high) supersonic at lower altitudes either? Because denser air causing even more friction? I mean something like Mach 2 at 1000 feet. Mission impossible?
  - lfodofod 4y ago
    > What is their opinion about being unable to go supersonic for more than short bursts currently classified as "will not fix" Those two countries do not do carrier ops, why would they care about this at all?
kranke155 4y ago
The amount of hot takes is crazy.
gpderetta 4y ago
F-35 avionic software is written in C++, so obviously any use of such an airplane is to be condemned until rewritten into an HN-approved language. /flamebait To contribute something productive: I'm actually often pleasantly surprised how non-IT people with relevant experience often show up on HN comment threads.
- phreenet 4y ago
  Honestly they should just scrap it all and do a full rewrite in Rust /s
  - gnad_sucks 4y ago
    Damn it you were a fraction of a second faster.
  - emkemp 4y ago
    Fortran 2008.
- gnad_sucks 4y ago
  Another point against the F-35 - it's not Rust.
euler_angles 4y ago
The problem with being an expert on the F-35 is, you can't talk about most of the things you know. So internet hot takes dominate and you can't refute them without revealing things that you shouldn't reveal.
- belter 4y ago
  That goes both ways. The problem of being an expert on the F-35 is that you can't warn friendly nations of the critical problems classified as confidential. "The number of major F-35 flaws is shrinking, but the Pentagon is keeping details of the problems under wraps" - https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/2021/07/16/the-number-of-major-f-35-flaws-is-shrinking-but-the-pentagon-is-keeping-details-of-the-problems-under-wraps/ https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/2021/07/... "“Details of [deficiencies] — even unclassified [deficiencies] — are not publicly releasable because the information is operationally sensitive, and its release could be detrimental to U.S. and international war fighters operating F-35s worldwide,”... Seal noted that all remaining critical deficiencies are classified as category 1B issues, which represent a “critical impact on mission readiness.” The more serious category 1A problems indicate a risk to the operator’s life..." "...In June 2019, Defense News published an investigation into the F-35 that detailed all 13 category 1 deficiencies on the books at the time — the first and only time a full list of F-35 critical deficiencies has been publicly released." Since Finland selection was done way before, how many of these were disclosed to them?
  - euler_angles 4y ago
    Nations in foreign military sales programs are briefed prior to purchase. The contents of those briefings are usually classified.
  - FrontierPsych 4y ago
    Meh, not to worry. I'm 100% positive that there are plenty of moles in every area of our DIE defense industry.
openplatypus 4y ago
I don't understand what's the fuss about. I would build F35 over the weekend in Rust.
mlindner 4y ago
I got a good laugh out of them, if I was the conspiratorial sort I'd think that the thread is being astroturfed. However my personal guess is there's a lot of posters from a certain English speaking nation that's anti-NATO and gets a lot of anti-NATO propaganda from it's government and media. So they're just reciting talking points.
- nocoiner 4y ago
  Wait, I’m honestly having trouble figuring out what country you’re talking about. Is Ireland anti-NATO? Australia? I’m scratching my head trying to figure out who I’m missing. Or is it a NATO member that’s anti-NATO? But in that case I can’t imagine that the government provides a lot of anti-NATO propaganda…
  - mlindner 4y ago
    I was specifically implying India where English is an official language.
    - nocoiner 4y ago
      Ah, OK, fair enough. I wasn’t thinking about the relatively long list of countries that have English as an official language, though I suppose it’s quite likely the case that there are more English speakers in India than any country other than the U.S.

0xDEF 4y ago

Norwegian and Danish pilots and technicians love the F-35 and prefer it over the competition. It's very typical of tech people to think we know more than domain experts.

belter 4y ago
What is their opinion about being unable to go supersonic for more than short bursts currently classified as "will not fix"? [1] A hint they got from the world of software development clearly... :-) "...At extremely high altitudes, the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps’ versions of the F-35 jet can only fly at supersonic speeds for short bursts of time before there is a risk of structural damage and loss of stealth capability, a problem that may make it impossible for the Navy’s F-35C to conduct supersonic intercepts... The Defense Department does not intend to field a fix for the problem, which influences not only the F-35’s airframe and the low-observable coating that keeps it stealthy, but also the myriad antennas located on the back of the plane that are currently vulnerable to damage, according to documents exclusively obtained by Defense News... ...The F-35 Joint Program Office has classified the issues for the "B" and "C" models as separate category 1 deficiencies, indicating in one document that the problem presents a challenge to accomplishing one of the key missions of the fighter jet..." [1] - https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds...
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  As an interested layman I'd have thought, the higher, the better, because less friction. Now I'm wondering why. Because of lower outside air temperature, making some material expand/shrink too fast? Now I'm puzzled. Does this mean it can't go (high) supersonic at lower altitudes either? Because denser air causing even more friction? I mean something like Mach 2 at 1000 feet. Mission impossible?
- lfodofod 4y ago
  > What is their opinion about being unable to go supersonic for more than short bursts currently classified as "will not fix" Those two countries do not do carrier ops, why would they care about this at all?

kranke155 4y ago

The amount of hot takes is crazy.

gpderetta 4y ago

F-35 avionic software is written in C++, so obviously any use of such an airplane is to be condemned until rewritten into an HN-approved language. /flamebait To contribute something productive: I'm actually often pleasantly surprised how non-IT people with relevant experience often show up on HN comment threads.

phreenet 4y ago
Honestly they should just scrap it all and do a full rewrite in Rust /s
- gnad_sucks 4y ago
  Damn it you were a fraction of a second faster.
- emkemp 4y ago
  Fortran 2008.
gnad_sucks 4y ago
Another point against the F-35 - it's not Rust.

euler_angles 4y ago

The problem with being an expert on the F-35 is, you can't talk about most of the things you know. So internet hot takes dominate and you can't refute them without revealing things that you shouldn't reveal.

belter 4y ago
That goes both ways. The problem of being an expert on the F-35 is that you can't warn friendly nations of the critical problems classified as confidential. "The number of major F-35 flaws is shrinking, but the Pentagon is keeping details of the problems under wraps" - https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/2021/07/16/the-number-of-major-f-35-flaws-is-shrinking-but-the-pentagon-is-keeping-details-of-the-problems-under-wraps/ https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/2021/07/... "“Details of [deficiencies] — even unclassified [deficiencies] — are not publicly releasable because the information is operationally sensitive, and its release could be detrimental to U.S. and international war fighters operating F-35s worldwide,”... Seal noted that all remaining critical deficiencies are classified as category 1B issues, which represent a “critical impact on mission readiness.” The more serious category 1A problems indicate a risk to the operator’s life..." "...In June 2019, Defense News published an investigation into the F-35 that detailed all 13 category 1 deficiencies on the books at the time — the first and only time a full list of F-35 critical deficiencies has been publicly released." Since Finland selection was done way before, how many of these were disclosed to them?
- euler_angles 4y ago
  Nations in foreign military sales programs are briefed prior to purchase. The contents of those briefings are usually classified.
- FrontierPsych 4y ago
  Meh, not to worry. I'm 100% positive that there are plenty of moles in every area of our DIE defense industry.

openplatypus 4y ago

I don't understand what's the fuss about. I would build F35 over the weekend in Rust.

mlindner 4y ago

I got a good laugh out of them, if I was the conspiratorial sort I'd think that the thread is being astroturfed. However my personal guess is there's a lot of posters from a certain English speaking nation that's anti-NATO and gets a lot of anti-NATO propaganda from it's government and media. So they're just reciting talking points.

nocoiner 4y ago
Wait, I’m honestly having trouble figuring out what country you’re talking about. Is Ireland anti-NATO? Australia? I’m scratching my head trying to figure out who I’m missing. Or is it a NATO member that’s anti-NATO? But in that case I can’t imagine that the government provides a lot of anti-NATO propaganda…
- mlindner 4y ago
  I was specifically implying India where English is an official language.
  - nocoiner 4y ago
    Ah, OK, fair enough. I wasn’t thinking about the relatively long list of countries that have English as an official language, though I suppose it’s quite likely the case that there are more English speakers in India than any country other than the U.S.